This episode discusses crime scenes, murder, and violence.

Listener discretion is advised.

This is the fall line.

One of our goals with this show is to help our audience better understand forensic science in the pursuit of justice for cold cases.

We've had plenty of experts weigh in on everything from forensic anthropology to odontology.

But perhaps the subject that we've most often discussed is the use of FIGG, forensic investigative genetic genealogy, to solve crimes that were once considered

impossible to close. Those episodes have gone over the basics of DNA and how genealogy has

changed the game, and you can check those out if you haven't had an introduction to the subject.

We will link them in the show notes. We've covered everything

from the difference between classic STR testing, like the kind of samples uploaded to

KOTUS, to the whole genome sequence SNIP test used for FIGG, and we've interviewed scientists

and genealogists alike to break down the concepts for you. One of those experts is Karen Binder,

and you last heard Karen on our episode featuring Leo Jane Doe, and Detective Filter brought up her

work in our mid-season episode regarding updates in the unidentified persons cases in Nashville, Tennessee.

But we have never sat down with Karen to talk about her background and her work.

So I invited her to join me for an in-depth interview.

She was one of the earliest IGG practitioners

with DNA Doe Project, and also works on private cases

with her own company.

She also co-founded the IGG programs

at Ramapo College in New Jersey, where students

can train in three different tracks to study IGG, a certificate program, a boot camp, and as part of

...