There's no shortage of tech podcasts, but few give you a true dose of the future.

The A16Z podcast is an exception.

It takes you straight to the innovators behind new materials, data centers, self-driving cars,

even electric boats, eavesdrop on the future with the A16Z podcast.

HBR presents.

Hi there, I'm Azim Azar, and you're listening to the exponential view podcast.

And as regular listeners to this podcast and readers of my newsletter will know,

I've been tracking the climate crisis for the last several years.

I've had conversations with everyone from clean energy entrepreneurs to people working

in decarbonisation and carbon credits to climate economists and investors.

Now, today's guest is someone whose work has really helped my thinking in this area.

Michaeli Delevinia runs a carbonomics research programme at Goldman Sachs, the investment bank,

and he's been tracking the economics behind the transition to net zero.

His work has been really helpful for me in understanding the cost of the ambition.

He's got an excellent understanding of the role of capital markets in steering decarbonisation

and the numbers behind humanity's greatest challenge.

We spend a bit of time talking about global carbon markets and carbon pricing.

That's the concept the governments can attach a cost to carbon pollution to incentivise greener behaviour from polluters,

effectively to embed the externality of that pollution into the prices that firms face in the market.

I want to define another term of art that we use carbon abatement.

That means reducing the amount of carbon dioxide produced from a particular industrial activity.

Now, on with the show, Michaeli Delevinia, welcome to exponential view.

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