Welcome back to the podcast, bribe, swindle, or steel.

I'm Alexandra Rogge, and today we're going to debate the pros and cons of the ISO-37,01, anti-bribery management standard.

My guest is Judd Hesselroth. Judd is the Director of the Office of Legal Compliance Programs and Corporate External and Legal Affairs at Microsoft. Thank you for joining me, Judd.

Good morning, Alexander. Thank you. It's an honor. The last time I was at your offices in Seattle was the day after the Seahawks had won the Super Bowl, so that was 2015,

and it was insane. It really was an exciting time. I remember it fondly. I think that most

people know this, but the ISO that we're discussing today is the international organization

for standardization. It's a non- nonprofit organization. It's based in Geneva,

but they operate through a federation of national standards bodies, the ISO member bodies. So in the

United States, for example, that's the American National Standards Institute, or ANSI. In the UK,

it's the British Standards Institution. Each country has its own. Judd, you have been

very active on the U.S. ISO committee, that's ANSI, since its inception. What prompted you and

Microsoft to take a visible role on this project? I think we sat back and looked at the, you know,

current companies compliance program activities and inter adibribery program activities.

And then, you know, as you would expect, we talk with and benchmark

and engage a lot of other companies, both in the IT industry and outside,

just to learn and share best practices.

I know, you know, we've had several, you know, great conversations with you,

Alexander and your team over the years.

And we looked at really the idea of an international,

inappropriate management system standard that had the benefit of input of, you know,

subject matter experts from around the world that reflected the expectations and

requirements of those either subject matter experts or the laws and regulations of the different

...