At that point, I considered it a journey to get to an end goal,

and I have these people to support me and I can support them.

The end goal of not being gay anymore.

Yes, of not being gay.

This is death, sex, and money.

He's meditating. No, he's not. He's like dead, man.

The show from WNYC about the things we think about a lot. I can't believe what a bunch of nerds we are. We're looking up money laundering in a dictionary. And need to talk about more. You don't know first thing about love. I'm going to sail. Benji Unger and Chaim Levin are really good friends. Almost like platonic dating.

They grew up just a few miles apart in Brooklyn, but they didn't meet until about nine years ago when Benji was 20 and Chaim was 18.

I tell people that we met in a closet and he hates it. He literally every...

I don't hate it. He hates it. He yells at me. He's like, stop it and why do you do that?

But I think it's really funny because we met in a place where the goal of being there was to stay in darkness.

They were both raised in big Jewish families that followed strict Orthodox rules.

They went to religious schools, yeshivas, through

high school and beyond. Back then, they wore traditional Orthodox dress, white shirts, black

pants, and wide-brimmed black hats. Chaim and I grew up in different sects of Orthodox Judaism.

Mine was probably a little bit more liberal little bit more liberal, but it, not with, in the case of being

gay, there was no such a thing as being gay.

And, you know, it's not, you know, it's one thing if something is talked about.

The problem is it didn't exist.

And when something's, you know, when you're going through this inner turmoil and it doesn't exist in the world around you, that's torture.

When they were teenagers, Benji and Chaim responded differently to their attraction to other young men.

Chaim acted on it and learned it wasn't safe to talk about.

...