It's our first interview that we've done together, Lawrence, when we've really been journalistic peers, you know?

This is going to be fun then.

This is death, sex, and money.

The show from WNYC about the things we think about a lot and need to talk about more.

I'm Anacale.

If you've listened to this show over the years, chances are you might have heard me interview

Lawrence Bartley. I first talked with him when he was incarcerated at Sing Sing in upstate

New York. And over the years, I've talked with him and his wife, Reneen, as he got out on parole

and began a career in journalism.

This is inside story.

The only show about the system by people who lived it.

I'm Lawrence Bartlett.

Our prisons have gotten so violent.

Even if you didn't go in with a trauma disorder, it's hard to come out without one.

Lawrence covers criminal justice issues for the Marshall Project.

And earlier this year, he launched an interview show with Vice News.

In fact, just yesterday, well, this morning, I just came back from South Carolina from a prison there.

And just seeing the things that the men in their cherish like the barbershop area

like their their kitchen area and it's really not something that i would cherish you know i

understand that it's what they have but it reminds me of that place in a way that doesn't feel good.

When we first talked in 2014, Lawrence was just starting to imagine his life on the outside.

He was in his early 40s and had been behind bars since he was a

...