Day 777 - Lazar Berman: Is Trump's 'pathway to a Palestinian state' code for nation-building?
The Times of Israel Daily Briefing
The Times of Israel
4.5 • 1.1K Ratings
🗓️ 21 November 2025
⏱️ 36 minutes
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Summary
Welcome to The Times of Israel's Lazar Focus. Each Friday, join host deputy editor Amanda Borschel-Dan and diplomatic correspondent Lazar Berman for a deep dive into what's behind the news that spins the globe.
Last week, the pair spoke with foremost urban warfare expert John Spencer and Borschel-Dan noted that a term -- “nation-building” -- was raised repeatedly.
In this week's episode, we explore this concept, starting with defining the term.
We hear about previous models of nation-building, starting from Japan and Germany, following their defeats in World War II. We learn how these attempts were successful -- and former enemies quickly turned into allies.
We then turn to more recent history with the West's attempts to reshape Afghanistan and Iraq. What were the differences between the two wars and their aftermaths?
And finally, Berman applies the lessons learned in these previous attempts at nation-building and conjectures how they could -- or could not -- be applied in Gaza.
Lazar Focus can be found on all podcast platforms. This episode was produced by the Pod-Waves.
IMAGE: Lazar Berman (courtesy) / A general view shows a Security Council meeting at the UN headquarters, September 23, 2025, at the United Nations. (AP Photo/Yuki Iwamura, File)
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the Times of Israel's Laser Focus. |
| 0:06.6 | That's right. |
| 0:07.2 | We tweaked the name of the Friday Focus to reflect its star, diplomatic correspondent, Laser, Berman. |
| 0:15.1 | So I'm Deputy Editor Amanda Borchell Dunn. |
| 0:17.7 | And Laser, how does it feel to have a podcast series named after you? |
| 0:23.7 | Oh, it feels incredible. And I'm just wondering, maybe on the daily briefing, we should name it after you. |
| 0:29.4 | I just haven't come up with a clever pun yet. The Borchelle-Dan briefing? That works. Nice |
| 0:34.9 | alliteration there. It doesn't really. It really doesn't. So I just want to |
| 0:39.8 | mention to our listeners that it wasn't actually laser that came up with this idea. It was by |
| 0:44.8 | popular demand and I received several emails and comments on YouTube asking us to change the |
| 0:52.0 | name of the Friday focus to the laser focus. So here we are. |
| 0:56.5 | Now, Laser, if you remember last week, you and I had a really great conversation with urban |
| 1:02.2 | warfare expert John Spencer. And listeners, if you missed it, just please check it out. It was well |
| 1:07.7 | worth it. And when we're speaking, or actually more when you and John |
| 1:12.2 | were speaking, the term nation building kept being brought up over and over and over. So today, |
| 1:19.7 | in our laser focus, I would like to explore this concept of nation building with you after the break. |
| 1:38.8 | And we're back. I'm Amanda Warshall, Dan, here with Laser Bearman, our diplomatic correspondent. |
| 1:45.1 | So, Laser, let's start by defining a term, nation building. |
| 1:50.4 | How is this used on the diplomatic stage? |
| 1:54.3 | Sure, so that is also comparable or interchangeable with state building. |
| 2:00.3 | And, you know, in the past it's had different meanings. |
| 2:02.8 | But really since the Iraq-Afghanistan era after the 9-11 attacks, it really means a use of |
... |
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