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The Good Fight

David Wallace-Wells on Climate Change

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 7 May 2022

⏱️ 64 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

David Wallace-Wells is one of the foremost journalists covering climate change. A writer at The New York Times and a columnist at The New York Times Magazine, Wallace-Wells is the author of the best-selling book The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming. His New York Magazine article of the same name was the most read in the magazine’s history. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and David Wallace-Wells discuss why the worst scenarios for the future of climate outcomes have become less likely over the course of the last years; how much damage climate change is nevertheless likely to wreak; and what political, economic, and technological solutions might help humanity deal with this urgent challenge. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: podcast@persuasion.community  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

If we're at three degrees of warming in 2100, that means that all of sub-Saharan Africa will have no economic growth at all.

0:06.0

But I just want to call into question the sort of fundamental premise of what you're asking, which is to say, that economic growth is continuing almost in parallel to these climate impacts.

0:15.6

We know enough about the scale and scope of these impacts to know that they will be, in the very best case,

0:20.2

complicating our trajectories of economic growth and in some cases in some

0:24.0

places probably a lot worse than that. And now the good fight with

0:28.7

Yasha Monk. Today I want to tell you about the argument in chapter 2 of my new book of the

0:40.7

great experiment why diverse democracies fall apart and how they can endure, please order the book and read along.

0:48.0

So when I was figuring out how to write this book, I thought, hey, I know what I'll do. I'll find the diverse democracy that

0:56.7

works really well, and I'll go and spend time there and I'll tell its story and that'll

1:02.2

tell us what we can emulate. It'll be fun and we'll have the solution.

1:07.0

But the more I looked at some of the countries that seem candidates, the less convincing they were.

1:14.0

I don't think that any country in the world has quite figured out how to have these deeply

1:19.4

ethnically and religiously diverse democracies that actually treat their citizens as equals.

1:26.2

So in chapter 2 of the book, I do something different instead.

1:31.4

What I do is to look at the three main historical modes of failure,

1:37.0

at the way in which diverse societies in history have gone badly wrong.

1:42.0

To set up some of the things we should be on

1:45.2

guard again some of the ways we can learn from that historical experience.

1:51.1

Now the first of those historical modes of failure is anarchy.

1:56.0

Thomas Hobbs, a wonderful political theorist, worried that life in the state of nature would be nasty brutish and in short that it would consist of a

2:06.1

war of all against all. That I think is not entirely right. When you look at some of the places in the country where the state is very weak or has failed with nearly non-existent, life actually looks a little bit different.

2:20.0

What you get in Afghanistan and Somalia and other parts of the world is individuals who are caught in what Darren Atsemoglu and James Robinson call a cage of norms.

...

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