David Lammy: The old world order isn't coming back
Political Thinking with Nick Robinson
BBC
4.6 • 2.5K Ratings
🗓️ 23 January 2026
⏱️ 52 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What happens when US Vice President Vance goes drinking with Angela Rayner & David Lammy?
The Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Secretary knows America better than probably anyone else around the cabinet table. And in this interview he reflects at length on the state of the world and the significance of the US president's Greenland threats.
David Lammy gives an impassioned defence against critics who question his friendship with Vice President J D Vance and reflects on his life's journey from Tottenham to Harvard.
He also discusses the ongoing row over jury trial reforms, potential upcoming by-elections, and Keir Starmer government's storytelling.
Senior Producer: Daniel Kraemer Producer: Flora Murray Sound: Hal Haines and Chris Murphy Editor: Giles Edwards
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. |
| 0:07.2 | If you're the person always being asked, what's happening in the news? |
| 0:10.9 | You could do with a podcast wingman. |
| 0:13.3 | Newscast is just that, a little voice in your ear, |
| 0:16.5 | giving you a deeper understanding of what's going on in the world. |
| 0:19.5 | We won't even mind if you try and take |
| 0:21.0 | the credit yourself. Listen to Newscast every day on BBC Sounds. The old order isn't coming back. |
| 0:28.1 | The tectonic plates have shifted. There is profound change. No one around the cabinet table |
| 0:33.3 | knows America quite as well as my guest on political thinking this week, David Lamy, |
| 0:38.3 | the Deputy Prime Minister, the former Foreign Secretary, who studied in the United States, |
| 0:44.3 | is a friend of Barack Obama and has forged a close relationship with Vice President J.D. Vance. |
| 0:51.9 | Over the next 30, 40 minutes or so, we discuss the nature of that relationship, |
| 0:58.5 | whether the world order has ruptured and whether you can form a friendship with someone who believes |
| 1:05.5 | that you're the problem. The you and your politics are the reason that there is, in the words of a recent US national security strategy, a risk of civilizational erasure in Europe. |
| 1:18.4 | We talk about that, we talk about his upbringing, and we talk about the big domestic policy battle he's engaged in now, the battle over the future of the jury trials, |
| 1:29.4 | which some predict could be the next big Kirst-Arma U-turn, |
| 1:34.6 | not least because the leading opponent of the changes that David Lamy wants to make |
| 1:39.1 | is threatening to quit his seat and force a by-election. |
| 1:51.1 | Music threatening to quit his seat and force a by-election. David Lamy, Deputy Prime Minister, welcome back to political thinking. |
| 1:54.4 | Thank you. Great to be back. |
| 1:56.1 | At the end of this incredibly turbulent week, |
| 1:59.7 | people will want to step back and sort of ask a question, |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from BBC, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of BBC and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.