David Kaye on How We Address the Global Spyware Problem
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 24 November 2021
⏱️ 45 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
On November 3, the Commerce Department added four foreign companies to what is often referred to as the “Entity List,” for engaging in activities that are contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States. One of those additions was the Israeli company NSO Group, which sells software—often called spyware—that once remotely installed on a phone can steal things like passwords, photos, communications and web searches. It can also activate cameras and microphones without the knowledge of the user. Companies placed on the Entity List are subject to U.S. government licensing and sanctions requirements. The NSO Group was added to the list based on evidence that it developed and supplied spyware to foreign governments that use these tools to target government officials, journalists, activists, academics and embassy workers.
To talk about the global spyware problem, Stephanie Pell sat down with David Kaye, a professor of law at the University of California, Irvine, and the former United Nations Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression. In this former role, he produced a report that called for a moratorium on the sale and transfer of spyware. They discussed the nature of the global spyware problem, what might be done to address it and the important role both civil society groups and journalists have played in exposing it.
Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair |
| 0:07.2 | podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:14.7 | That's patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair |
| 0:25.6 | no bull and the aftermath. |
| 0:33.8 | I think there's a lot of room within Vassanar to really be very clear about surveillance |
| 0:41.3 | technologies not only that have, you know, national security use and thus a kind of impact |
| 0:48.4 | on national security, but also have a potential for abuse of human rights in a domestic sense. |
| 0:58.1 | I'm Stephanie Pelland, this is the LawFair podcast, November 24th, 2021. |
| 1:03.1 | On November 3rd, the Commerce Department added four foreign companies to what is often referred |
| 1:07.6 | to as the entity list for engaging in activities that are contrary to the national security |
| 1:13.4 | or foreign policy interests of the United States. |
| 1:16.7 | One of those additions was the Israeli company NSO Group, which sells software, often |
| 1:22.0 | called spyware, that once remotely installed on a phone can steal things like passwords, |
| 1:27.6 | photos, communications and web searches. |
| 1:30.5 | It can also activate cameras and microphones without the knowledge of the user. |
| 1:35.5 | Companies placed on the entity's list are subject to US government licensing and sanctions |
| 1:40.5 | requirements. |
| 1:41.9 | The NSO Group was added to the list based on evidence that it developed and supplied |
| 1:46.6 | spyware to foreign governments that used these tools to target government officials, journalists, |
| 1:52.2 | activists, academics and embassy workers. |
| 1:55.3 | To talk about the global spyware problem, I sat down with David Kay, a professor of law |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Lawfare Institute, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of The Lawfare Institute and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.