On Being is supported by the new theatrical production of Bill W. and Dr. Bob,

the true story of the two men who founded Alcoholics Anonymous.

The New Yorker has called Bill W. and Dr. Bob an endearing portrait of friendship uplifted by warm

humor, now playing at the Soho Playhouse in New York City. More information at billw and

Dr. Bob dot com slash on being. The issue of abortion has again raised its device of head.

Lost in that specter is the enduring fact that most of us, most Americans, don't identify with the

absolute positions of always for or always against abortion. We never start our public discussions in

that nuanced moral center. This hour we will. We delve into what we usually don't talk about

when we talk about abortion. We wonder why this issue remains so contentious and what might be

it's stake in it for us as a culture that gets hidden by political stalemate. We experience two

people who demonstrate that a different way forward is possible. David Gushy is a Christian

ethicist. Francis Kisling is a longtime reproductive rights activist. Abortion very laid in pregnancy.

Abortion of disabled fetuses. These to me are very very complicated questions. Even though I don't

think fetuses have an absolute right to life, I think fetuses have value and I don't think you can

make the fetus invisible. A concern I have about my own side is what the main activists in the pro

life for anti-abortion community want is an overturn of Roe vs. Wade. I am not at all convinced that

if that were to actually happen that they would like the world that they would see on the other side.

I'm Krista Tippett and this is On Being. I spoke with Francis Kisling and David Gushy in 2012

before a live audience at the Humphrey School of Public Affairs in Minnesota.

No issue is more a symbol of culture war than abortion and it is also a symbol of how we have

impoverished our approach to intimate civilizational questions. One of the premises behind this

civil conversation series is that we are not all going to arrive at a universal shared set of

...