Remove the hatred, remove all of the narratives, remove the division for just a little while. When you really stepped out in these last couple years, were you prepared for what was coming? I lost my illusion and fantasy of potentially being an every man a long time ago. Passions run hot for just about everybody these days. Knowing the man that you are and knowing that you're willing to talk openly about these things, this is the perfect way to do that. To be honest, I don't recognize the world anymore, but I genuinely don't. Your message is resonating in the way that really surprised me. I love being able to free people from their burden. That's my drug of drugs. David Raymond, thank you very much for being on my show. Thank you for having my brother. Fellow Chicagoan, much respect to you. I wanna start off with a little side note. Normally on my show, we mostly talk about music and art, but in the last couple years you waited very deeply into the political sphere. And so it's not to say it's going to be about politics or it's going to be about music. It's about let's call it the intercession of both and the responsibility of an artist to just stand behind what they believe in and type of thing. So a quick discursive on your musical accomplishment because for those who don't know you, maybe you're just here to watch what you have to say about your political or social belief, maybe it's not the right way to put it, but it's worth pointing out that you've been in one of the most successful metal bands of all time. First album, Sickness in 2000. The next four albums debuted at number one, which is I didn't know. And that's very impressive to me personally. Singles on all eight albums that the bands put out, your band disturbed have been in the top 10, just unbelievable. So, so for, because you know how these things work, because I get into them myself occasionally,

the first thing people go at is, well, you don't have a right to say those things. I'm not even talking about your religion, I'm talking about, well, you're not this guy, you're this guy, so you're not, you know what I'm saying. So for people who don't understand that you are, you have been, for many years, a dominant, musical personality and very respected. So if anybody wants go at that angle that's let's just say that for my own personal opinion that there's nowhere to go with that I appreciate And and part of that I think is we were both part of the back to the beginning show Which was the final Aussie Black Sabbath show so let's start there Because you've had a relationship with the Osborne family going back and I know you have a good with Sharon. So let's just start with like the easy part, which is both of us being there. I don't think we've ever talked about our reflections, but I certainly watched you play and we got to talk during that event. So keep talking about it too. Thank you. So you can talk a little bit about your experience at the back to the beginning show. Probably the most surreal day of my life. I don't know about you. I have never seen that much talent congregated in one room in one venue at one point in time. And getting along. And getting along splendidly. Yeah. Like it was like one big family reunion. And it was warm and wonderful. And it was a celebration everything that, you know, Ozzy was and everybody who loved him so much and how many people he has influenced, that Sabbath is influenced probably the most seminal band of all time, maybe. You could make the argument, for sure. I was blown away, you know, genuinely like fanboying myself every five minutes. I think we all were. Yeah. It was very, very surreal. And it was incredible to see everybody paying tribute in the way that they could. It was incredible to see so many different spheres of talent coming together and just executing flawlessly and beautifully and powerfully. And then culminating with finally seeing Ozzy take the stage for the last time and having an entire stadium just ball like babies together. It was, I'll never forget it. Yeah, yeah. Crazy, crazy. Yeah.

So the reason I wanted to start here, because it's both a happy memory for each of us, but also because I was on the side of the stage watching you play and I thought it was great. And I don't remember anything being out of the ordinary. And then about a day or two later, these articles start appearing to me how you were booed. And I thought, that's not my memory.

Wasn't most people's memory?

Yeah. a day or two later these articles start appearing to mean how you were booed. And I thought, that's not my memory. It wasn't most people's memory. It wasn't the memory of anyone that was watching the live stream. It wasn't my memory. I thought everything went great. Everybody was patting me on the back and high-fiving me when I came backstage. I didn't hear any of what they were talking about. I heard a little rabble rousing like over like stage right audience. But even that's where I was. So I would have heard it. So if there was, it was pretty minor because I didn't hear it. Well, the sad truth about the way that social media works these days, particularly for causes and politically-driven things, is that the lie travels around the world at the speed of light. And before you can catch up to it, the damage is already done. And it doesn't matter. Propaganda has served its purpose. Yeah, that was my first reaction reaction was I thought, well, I don't remember this.

I was there.

Now. And as you said, if you heard anything, I was right where there would have been and I didn't hear that. But secondarily, my first reaction, because if you're in the media, like both of us have been for much of our adult life, you kind of go, oh, there's a reason that he's being singled out and somebody's leaning into this.

Was that your reaction when you saw that?

Oh, no doubt.

I mean, look, I was expecting something at some point. This basically started quite a way back before the actual show. With two, first of all, it started first and foremost with the atrocities that occurred on October 7th when Hamas invaded Israel and many other gazons invaded Israel and slaughtered and raped and kidnapped and just did the most atrocious things imaginable to innocent people who many of which were involved in building bridges of peace, many of them were involved in outreach to the Palestinian people and helping the people of Gaza and all of those, keep it safe, all of those those little farming settlements, those communes that are on the border, they were all about dialogue. They're all about peace. They're all about coexistence. And what happened that they broke me? Sorry, there was like, do you think that said at the root, that event, an atrocity, yes, that atrocity, it shifted something in you. It intensified things. Because you've always been very proud of who you are and you're certainly not shy in your opinions. I say that as a fellow troublemaker. but I'm saying, is there something about that event that maybe made you feel that you had to come forward more? Yes. I think it galvanized most of world jury. It made every Jew that much more, you know, insistent on being publicly Jewish, on making sure that people understood that we weren't buckled by it, that we weren't intimidated by it, that we were going to continue to persevere. The outpouring of anti-Semitism that followed That was, front, tens and purposes, premeditated, was planned.

There were organizations that are supposed to be about human rights that were celebrating the

slaughter of Jews the day it happened, and the day after it happened. And then to see so many

of my colleagues fall prey to the narratives that are being spun, and it's disheartening, I have to say, the least. There were two incidents in particular leading into the back to the beginning show that got quite a bit of FaceTime online. Let's put it that way. I objected very, very powerfully and very strongly to the use of the live platform of the stage that we all share to spread hatred. You have Bands like the Irishman Nikap who have been known to praise Hasbala who is their modern day Nazis proxies of the Iranian regime, Jew hatred and blood lust run through them. And it's just shocking to see how normalized this sort of hatred has become. Can I start? Sure. Do you, because I think these are important distinctions and this is why I wanted to talk to you because, you know, to me, what I find interesting is everybody's got an opinion. Some people say, say them and some people don't, but everybody's got an opinion. Let's start there. But where it gets interesting to me is this fine line between artistry, independent thought, making a statement of things that you believe in, and then whether or not there should be, let's call it de-platforming orforming or some sort of thing. So for example, in the case of, I think the thing with kneecap that got your eye or was, they were on stage at Coachella, right? And on the screens came up and again, tell me if I'm wrong, came up a Israel free Palestine. And okay, so freeze that moment in time if we can. Do you have an issue? So do you have an issue with the band saying it? I have an issue with the band being using their platform to incite. So you see it as an incitement? I see it as an incitement when the bands that

what when the organizations that they are praising part of their charter is literally to slaughter Jews. Hasbalah is a demonic terrorist organization. They don't deserve to be praised by anyone to be praised by anyone for any reason.

Sure, but because this are difficult discussions. Sure. Excuse my sort of wandering around. But if they were saying it on their social media or they're saying it on a stage, do you think it's a situation where they have every right to say it, but they shouldn't have allies in it Like, it shouldn't be on a social media platform or it shouldn't be on a stage. Everyone is the right to say anything they want on stage, off stage, on camera, off to you don't have a problem with the free expression. I am not in any way supportive of stifling free speech. I think that free speech and speech of that kind needs to be met with more speech, speech that I tried to provide. So your reaction is one of, I think that's wrong that you're doing. Absolutely. Okay, so it's more of a moral, absolutely. Okay, I just want to be clear because... No, no, I think everyone has the right to look

Everyone has a platform everyone has a voice and everyone's entitled to that voice

Choosing what you do with it is key and not expecting there to be backlash or repercussions after using said voice

Outside of the court of law and normal prosecution from the government. Yeah, you're being naive

The court of public opinion is what it is sure and it is powerful and there's a and even, you're being naive. The court of public opinion is what it is and it is powerful. And even if you're, you can say something, to me, you'll never see me, for example, get on stage and preach division of any kind. I will never encourage that. Our performances as a band, I've always tried far and away to keep completely free of any sort of polarizing entity of any kind. No political leanings of any kind. I want everyone who comes to a disturbed concert to feel welcome, to feel safe, to feel empowered, to feel unified. That's what those moments are for. Sure. And it bothered me to see someone who is being given this gift, this opportunity to take a platform that few people in life or this world are blessed to take and to abuse it in that way. I had to speak up. Now, that wasn't as much clear in sightment as this Bob Villain idiot who was... That was a say, Glaston and Mary? That was Glaston. And that was him getting on stage is saying death death to the IDF now that is Straight up incitement every single citizen of state of Israel has mandatory service in the military in the IDF for two years That's what they're required to do. We are surrounded by Nations, groups of people that want nothing more than to obliterate us. Are you talking in a sense that the Jewish state of Israel is talking about world-wide Jewish? Unfortunately, it's both. Okay. These days. And to demonize and incite against every single Israeli in existence, essentially is what this man was doing and this band was doing. There's nothing more irresponsible than that. That is direct insight to violence. So let's break that down a little bit too, because I think this is the heart of the conversation. Do you think the promoters have a responsibility because on some level they're putting these artists on the stage? And before anybody thinks I'm going in some other direction, I'm big on a free speech person. As am I? Okay. So your argument is not against the promoter. No, no, no, it might. So I strictly like, I recognize you're right to stand on that stage and I recognize you right. call you out if I think out if I think you're going to grow up. Absolutely. That's because I think that's very important for you as an artist to distinguish if people don't understand your position. People have the right to say whatever they want and people have the same right to counter said speech with more speech and to try and influence the rational people. So in the wake of the horrible atrocities in Israel, you at least from my position, because I'm not sitting on your social media every now and then, but it seems like you've kind of come forward and put yourself into the, into the fray of this greater argument. I have. I have. Can you walk me through, at least from a personal point at you? Did you wake up one day and think, I got to do something? Do you turn to your partner and say, I got to do, you know, it's like walk me through that process. No, yeah. Because you're, sorry, We know each other a little bit personally. You're very smart, man. Thank you, brother. You as well.

God bless you.

So point is, you know, we know each other a little bit personally. Yes. You're very smart, man. Thank you, brother.

You as well.

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