David Deutsch on the Pattern

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4.7 • 4.3K Ratings

🗓️ 22 December 2025

⏱️ 86 minutes

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Summary

A world-class physicist makes a shocking claim: across 2,500 years and every kind of society, there has been a recurring moral exception carved out just for Jews--the idea that hurting Jews is, in some sense, legitimate. Most of the time, this doesn't erupt into pogroms. Instead, it lives as a background permission: a readiness to excuse, minimize, or rationalize hurting Jews when it does occur. Listen as Russ Roberts talks with David Deutsch of Oxford University about what Deutsch calls "the Pattern": a persistent, global impulse not primarily to attack Jews, but to justify attacks on Jews--socially, politically, or physically. The stated reasons shift with the era--deicide, moneylending, "cosmopolitan elites," Zionism--but the underlying permission structure remains disturbingly constant. Unsettling, challenging, and clarifying, this conversation may change how you understand antisemitism--and the moral fault lines of our civilization.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to Econ Talk, Conversations for the Curious, part of the Library of Economics and Liberty.
0:07.9	I'm your host, Russ Roberts, of Sholem College in Jerusalem and Stanford University's Hoover Institution.
0:13.8	Go to EconTalk.org, where you can subscribe, comment on this episode, and find links and other information related to today's conversation.
0:21.2	You'll also find our archives with every episode we've done going back to 2006.
0:26.7	Our email address is mail at econTalk.org.
0:30.0	We'd love to hear from you.
0:36.8	Before introducing today's guest, I want to mention something important about when it was recorded.
0:42.3	This week's episode is about trying to understand violence against Jews and those who justify it.
0:48.5	I want to alert listeners that it was recorded before the horrific attacks on Jews celebrating Conica at Bondi Beach in Australia,
0:58.7	which is why you will not hear it mentioned.
1:02.2	It was recorded weeks before that tragedy.
1:06.8	I also plan to post some additional thoughts about today's thought-provoking episode at my substack, listening to the sirens.
1:14.8	Feel free to check that out as well.
1:16.8	And now on to today's guest.
1:19.9	Today is November 27th, 2025, and my guest is renowned physicist David Deutsch of Oxford University.
1:27.1	David, welcome to Econ Talk.
1:29.9	Hi, thank you for having me.
1:31.8	Our topic today isn't the interesting books that you've written,
1:36.4	The Fabric of Reality, The Beginning of Infinity.
1:39.1	We're going to talk about a theory of yours about why Jews are hated.
1:46.9	I'm a little uncomfortable with this topic for an episode of Beacon Talk. Many of you who are not Jewish may ask, why is this interesting,
1:52.1	why is it important? But I think at a minimum, you will get an understanding of your Jewish friends
	...

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