All these guys who proclaim themselves enthusiastic defenders of reason, the Enlightenment,

are simply a part of a very long Judeo-Christian tradition.

And they are unwilling to see in their own faces the long tendrils stretching back into antiquity.

Hey, hey, and welcome.

This is the Ben Shapiro Show Sunday special.

I'm excited to welcome to the program,

David Berlinski.

He's senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture.

He's author of human nature, as well as the devil's delusion, atheism, and its scientific pretensions. And many more books. He's taught philosophy, math, English at Stanford, Rutgers, City University of New York, University of Paris, so we have a lot to talk about. We've got to all that in just one second. But first, let me tell you, I love my Helix sleep mattress. Why? Well, because I sleep upon it. Why do I sleep upon it? Because it's extremely comfortable. Helix sleep. They've got a quiz. It takes just two minutes to complete. Matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. Whether you're a side sleeper or a hot sleeper, whether you like a plush or a firm bed. With Helix, there's no more confusion and no more compromising. Helix sleep is rated the number one mattress by GQ and Wired magazine, just go to helixsleep.com slash Ben, take that two-minute sleep quiz. They will match you to a customized

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Again, that's Helixleep.com slash ben for up to $125 off your mattress or, which is a heck of a deal. Helixleep.com slash ben. Again, that's helixleck sleep.com slash ben. David, thanks so much for stopping by. I really appreciate it. You're welcome. So let's talk a little bit about your book, Human Nature. The basic premise of the book is that there are a lot of folks across the political spectrum,

in teams, who are very invested in the idea that there is no such thing as a fixed human nature,

that humanity is intensely malleable and completely malleable.

How pervasive do you think that feeling is in politics these days?

I couldn't tell you about politics, but certainly as an intellectual tendency, I would put

the percentage of people prepared to deny essentialism at roughly 99.999%, leaving a minuscule

minority to affirm the obvious. Yes, there is such a thing as human nature. Obviously so.

And it's an essential component of being alive. Can you explain for a second what you mean by

essentialism? Because some folks who are watching may not understand the philosophical term.

When you say essentialism as compared to other forms of philosophy, what do you mean?

Well, let's take a human being.

The question is, are there any properties such that those properties are necessarily true of a

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