Hi and welcome to the working songwriter, the show where today's best songwriters come to talk shop.

I'm your host, Joe Pug. Each episode here,

we host a distinguished guest, and we ask them to go deep on their inspiration, on their process,

on the general ups and downs of making a life in music. So, whether you're a grizzled veteran,

attempting to sue Google for scraping the melody of your chart-topping hit into their free music generation engine or else a scrappy upstart, ready to give up music and pursue a career in programming music engines.

This is your show because ultimately it is what every writer seeks most, an ironclad

excuse to put off actually writing.

Hey, everybody, it's the first Friday of December 2025, and I thank you for joining us. This week's show

is brought to you by Ban Zougal. Built by musicians and for musicians, Banzoogel is an all-in-one

platform to build a beautiful website for your music. I'm old enough to remember when you had to pay

somebody called a web developer to get a website made. It would always

be some guy named Talbot who drove a Chrysler 300 with a lift kit and who was always trying to

sell you herbal teas from Sri Lanka that he claimed would open your third eye. An old Talbot

would charge you about a thousand bucks for a website that would be obsolete in six months.

But it's the future now.

You guys, that's not how it works anymore.

We're allowed to have nice things now.

One of those nice things is Banzugal.

For over 20 years, Banzugal has made it easy to build a stunning website and online store for your music.

Now they've added a brand new EPK plan so that musicians

can create a professional single page electronic press kit in minutes. All the features you need

are already built in. That's music players, images, text bio, video embeds, a gig calendar, press

...