In this combined episode of Unchained, Steven Ehrlich first breaks down why crypto treasury stocks (DATs) have swung from massive premiums to deep discounts, why comparisons to GBTC can be misleading, and why buying these stocks isn’t a clean arbitrage trade but a long-term, high-conviction bet. You can read Steve’s full report here and you can subscribe for 95% OFF before the end of year! 😱 Then, Figment Capital’s Dougie DeLuca zooms out to the broader shift underway. As fintechs and institutions embrace blockchain infrastructure, he argues that “crypto as we know it” may be fading—and that crypto natives risk being left behind unless they adapt to real users, sustainable products, and mainstream distribution. Need liquidity without selling your crypto? Take out a Figure Crypto-Backed Loan, allowing you to borrow against your BTC, ETH, or SOL with 12-month terms and no prepayment penalties. They have the lowest rates in the industry at 8.91%, allowing you to access instant cash or buy more Bitcoin without triggering a tax event.  Thank you to our sponsor, Figure! Unlock your crypto’s potential today at Figure!  Guests: Dougie DeLuca, Investor and Researcher at Figment Capital Steven Ehrlich, Executive Editor at Unchained Links: Unchained: Coinbase Launches Stock Trading and Prediction Markets Inside Robinhood’s Big Super App Plan: ‘There’s Still a Lot of Work to Be Done’ Dougie's “Crypto is Dead” article Timestamps: 👏 0:00 Intro 📘 1:16 What a DAT actually is and why mNAV matters more than most people think 📉 5:16 How deep the discounts really are and why some of them are optical illusions ⚖️ 7:12 Whether mNAVs should trade back to 1 and when that assumption breaks 🔁 8:59 How this compares to the GBTC discount and why the analogy can be dangerous 🧱 13:44 Why many DATs are stuck below mNAV and what’s structurally holding them down 🔍 16:34 How to pressure test different DATs to see which ones are opportunity and which are traps 19:34 Introduction 21:03 Why Dougie thinks crypto natives could be left behind as the market evolves 24:33 Why Dougie sees the current incentive-heavy crypto strategy fading away 27:13 Is crypto’s high risk market “saturated?” 28:32 Why Dougie sees Robinhood as a shining example of where crypto is going 29:46 How companies are shifting their strategies for this new moment in crypto 31:41 Why Dougie says the crypto label would be baggage in the future 33:13 Which companies are best positioned for the next phase of crypto adoption? 35:42 Which companies would have to evolve to survive? 42:11 Will the DeFi Mullet strategy prove successful? 42:17 Which parts of crypto culture should survive? 43:14 Why Dougie says Coinbase's content coins are still in their early innings 47:34 How crypto becomes mainstream 51:03 Is the four-year Bitcoin cycle over? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices