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We're in a time as thick with uncertainty, as with possibility. Many of us are still and again exhausted, and yet opening fitfully to what we've learned and been called to at this moment in the life of the world.

This hour, towards nourishing that, the second offering in our new series, The Future of Hope.

Darnal Moore is one of my beloved conversation partners of recent years. He is a social creative and a force in the constellation of energies that is the movement for Black Lives.

I admire him as a writer and podcaster who deepens and humanizes every subject he picks up.

And this hour, we experience him in conversation with the extraordinary Detroit-based writer and filmmaker, Dream Hampton.

She's best known right now for co-producing the 2021 Oscars and for the culture-shifting documentary she executive-produced, surviving Arkelli.

Here's something Darnal wrote to me about her.

She is a sister, friend, who I've organized alongside, learned from, and have been inspired by for more than a decade.

She is an astute and natural intellectual artist who is unafraid of challenging our ways of thinking and poses the right questions that might ultimately encourage us to be different in the world.

She was the first person I thought about when I began to think about Hope and its limitations and possibilities, an idea that deserves excavation.

So it is a privilege to enter this tender, intimate conversation between two dear friends.

In them, we experience a muscular hope and justice oriented towards redemption and calling out in a spirit of calling in.

You always remind me and I believe you have this training of the best of what we imagine, like a pastor to be.

The best of what we imagine, like the Solomon model of a judge to be someone who is not dispassionate but who is invested in healing at the end of the day.

So I love that about you.

I can't always claim that to be true, I think about Shaguaveira's thing about basically to be revolutionary.

You've got to love the people and I'd be like, ugh.

I don't feel like loving people are going to feel like love, that's not the feeling I have today.

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