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This Jungian Life Podcast

Dark Forces in the Psyche: Our Self-Destructive Impulses

This Jungian Life Podcast

Joseph Lee, Deborah Stewart, Lisa Marchiano

Mental Health, Health & Fitness

4.72.1K Ratings

🗓️ 30 April 2026

⏱️ 68 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Why is it that we sometimes fail to rise to life’s most important challenges? Why do we instead procrastinate, withdraw, self-sabotage, or feel unable to move toward the life we want?


This week, at a listener’s suggestion, Jungian analysts Lisa Marchiano and Deborah Stewart explore the concept of anti-libidinal forces in the psyche: those self-destructive impulses that oppose growth, pleasure, and forward movement.


We discuss the ways this phenomenon has been addressed within the profession, including Freud’s death drive, Melanie Klein’s concept of the bad breast, Clarissa Pinkola Estés’ predator in the psyche, and Donald Kalsched’s protector/persecutor.


Libido was understood by Jung to mean life energy, rather than being purely sexual. We explore how blocked libido can become depression, paralyzing fear, hoarding behavior, vicious self-criticism, or simply an inability to begin or complete what matters most.


Through stories such as Bluebeard, Jonah and the Whale, and Marduk and Tiamat, we consider inner monsters that threaten to devour vitality.


Anti-libidinal forces, however, are not the end of the story. We also discuss the heroic task of meeting fear, reclaiming disowned energies, and choosing life one step at a time.Read the dream we analyze in full on our website.


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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Ideally, our life energy is flowing out. It's carrying us with it out into the world. It gets us

0:08.1

out the door in the morning. However, there are times when libido gets damned up for a variety of

0:15.1

reasons. Well, Jung spent a lot of time in Volume 5 talking about this very thing, he said that one thing that can

0:24.0

happen is that when the libido is blocked, it can start flowing in and down. That can look

0:30.1

like depression.

0:33.6

Welcome to this Jungian life. Three good friends and Jungian analysts, Lisa Marchiano, Deborah Stewart and Joseph Lee,

0:41.6

invite you to join them for an intimate and honest conversation

0:45.1

that brings a psychological perspective to important issues of the day.

0:51.3

I'm Lisa Marchiano, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Philadelphia. I'm Joseph Lee, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Philadelphia.

0:55.3

I'm Joseph Lee, and I'm a Jungian analyst in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

1:00.3

I'm Deborah Stewart, a Jungian analyst, on Cape Cod. My husband always asks me every Monday, what are you going to talk about?

1:23.3

And I said, this week, we're going to talk about antelibidinal forces in the psyche.

1:30.2

And he said, I've never heard of that.

1:35.8

And I said, yes, you have.

1:41.7

We've all experienced times when we work against ourselves, we undo things, we stop ourselves from trying things, we sabotage ourselves. I don't think there's anybody who hasn't experienced that. So under this very wordy heading that I started out with,

2:06.4

let's talk about the ways that we get in our own way to no good purpose, what that means

2:14.9

and what to do about it. Well, we're really talking about our self-destructive tendencies, aren't we?

2:21.3

And by the way, I would say that your husband is remarkably non-neurotic.

2:28.6

So he may really not have had much experience with this.

2:32.9

But most of us have some self-destructive streak

2:37.2

in us, and it can look different ways. And we'll talk about that. But of course, you know,

2:42.5

the tendency to, the human tendency to being, toward being self-destructive, whether that's on an

...

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