On this episode of Scouting For Growth, Sabine VdL speaks with Danny Nathan, founder of Apollo 21, a New York-based innovation and product design studio that helps organisations turn frontier technology into real business outcomes. This isn’t a conversation about “AI for the sake of AI.” It’s about what happens when you layer innovation, entrepreneurship, and technology together—then apply that mindset to redesign business models, build stronger products, and create cultures that can evolve as fast as the market does. Innovation is a culture… and an operating system Danny’s work starts with a foundational question: what does innovation actually look like in day-to-day operations? He helps companies understand how innovation changes: how teams work how decisions get made how organisations structure themselves and how products get built Because innovation isn’t a department. It’s a way of operating—especially when technologies like AI, quantum computing, and cloud services are rewriting what’s possible. Startups and enterprises aren’t solving different problems — just at different scale Apollo 21 works with everyone from “napkin-stage” founders (with an idea but no MVP) to giants like Bank of America. And Danny makes a surprising point: the problems aren’t that different. The core tension is always the same: what customers expect today what the business needs tomorrow and how fast you can bridge that gap The difference is scale, complexity, and the cost of getting it wrong. Why big companies struggle with innovation Danny is refreshingly honest: large companies aren’t built for innovation by default. As organisations grow, they optimise for efficiency—squeezing ROI from every dollar. But innovation is inherently inefficient. It requires experimentation, trial-and-error, and learning loops that don’t fit neatly into traditional budgets and forecasting. That mismatch is why innovation programs often fail: the company asks for creativity… but funds certainty. The Apollo 21 principle: crawl, walk, run One of the most actionable frameworks Danny shares is Apollo 21’s “crawl, walk, run” philosophy. It’s a disciplined approach born from startup experience: start small learn fast validate where value is delivered iterate and improve scale only when you’ve earned it It’s how you avoid building expensive mistakes at enterprise scale. GenAI is here — but many companies aren’t ready Danny calls GenAI “the elephant in the room.” It’s moving fast, and everyone feels the pressure to adopt it. But his advice is grounded: get your data in order build the right structure for future AI use cases start introducing AI into current workflows gradually help employees learn how to interact with it confidently Because adoption isn’t technical — it’s human. When teams learn how to ask better questions, they get better outcomes—and fear turns into capability. Don’t build anything until you understand the customer Danny also reinforces a principle too many builders skip: deep customer research should happen before product development. If you don’t understand the customer’s real needs, AI won’t save you. It will just help you build the wrong thing faster. Why this episode matters For founders, executives, and innovation leaders, this conversation is a practical roadmap for turning frontier technology into growth: innovation requires operational design, not slogans big companies must fund experimentation intentionally “crawl, walk, run” beats “big bang transformation” AI readiness starts with data and workforce confidence customer understanding is the real multiplier Because the future won’t belong to the companies that adopt the most technology. It will belong to those who build the right products for the right customers, with the right learning culture.