Welcome back, everybody, to Religion on the Mind.

I am your host, Dr. Dan Koch, licensed therapist.

And that licensed therapist thing is going to come up today, big time.

I am joined by also big time friend of the pod,

Heather Patton Griffin. Heather, welcome back. Thank you, Dan. Good to see you again.

You've been on a few times, but most notably a longtime listener favorite episode. It happens to be

episode number 123, so it's very easy for me to remember.

One, two, three, where we talked about, really, you laid out your kind of vision of the

interior workings.

I believe you called it the sort of interior navigation system of white evangelicalism in the

States as you had experienced it, your insights around that have

proved to be quite valuable to myself and thousands of listeners. It's one of the episodes I get

the most comments about still to this day from people. And what happened is I started engaging

in this AI biblical counseling. I mean,

you know, half jokingly. Let's be truthful here. But as I did it, I just kept thinking of your work

and your concepts around that stuff. So I thought, hey, do you want to record? And let's talk

about that. And let's also talk through my experiment with the biblical counseling app, the AI biblical counseling app. Wait, there's a real app. Oh, this is real. Yeah, yeah. Did you not, oh, what did you think that? What did you? Oh, I thought you were just putting it in chat GPT for fun. No, no, no, no. Okay, yeah. Well, well, I think it will work out the same way.

I must have not been very clear in texting you.

I actually want to add one more wrinkle in, which is that after I engaged in this experience

that we're going to be talking through, and I sent you the transcript and all that stuff,

we'll be talking through it. I reached out to the CEO of this app, which I will not name.

I'm not going to name it because I'm not trying to docks anybody. But I told him, I was like,

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