You're listening to the Allender Center podcast with Dr. Dan Allender.

This week, Dan and his wife, Becky Allender, continue their conversation about Becky's new book, hidden in plain sight.

They reflect on the nature of calling and on the beautiful, wild invitation to step into new terrain while being in the midst of many others who choose to coast through life.

Well, I have the great privilege of interviewing P Allender, whom I happen to share a last name with.

And Becky, where we left off last time is talking about calling.

And I think that's one of the most, I can't wait to hear your thoughts about your own sense of calling, because I do

think it's one of the hardest things any of us come to engage. It's one thing to come to know

ourselves, our story, our formative narratives that have brought us to be who we are.

And to be connected with others, to be able to grieve one another's heartache, wounds with one another,

to celebrate one another's heroism, to not just surrender to the harm and not just to fight it,

but actually to grow and mature and to become who were meant to be in the midst of it.

Yes, that is heroism.

And it's harrowing to think about how we come through this process,

the thousands of small encounters that actually shift and change.

So all that is to begin to say, you know, I think of you a little bit like grandma Moses.

And for our listeners who are probably 50-something and above,

they probably know that name, at least something of what the illusion implies. For people

who are a little bit younger, I may not even be a name you've ever heard, but Grandma Moses

sort of was discovered when she was about 76 years of age and I'm not in

any way implying my love that you're at that age but you are at a later age coming into your

writing you're speaking your your calling. And that's something that I think most

people think they're supposed to have figured out in their 20s and then lived out well for

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