Hello and thank you for downloading this episode of the Witness History Podcast from the BBC World Service with me, Rachel Nieler.

Today I'm going to take you back 40 years to win the late Ronaldo Cavallari, created Chipata Bread in Italy.

I've been speaking to one of his closest friends.

It's July 1982 and we're in Adria, a town in Northern Italy.

Valley driver Ronaldo Cavallari is sick of the French baguette.

He thinks it's everywhere, it's taking over and he wants to create an alternative.

The idea started from making a better bread than French baguette.

And do you think he succeeded?

Yes, because Chipata Bread for sure is known in more than 50 countries in the world.

That's Ronaldo's best friend, Marco Viannello.

Ronaldo also had an ulterior motive.

His parents made flour and he thought a new bread could be good for business.

At that time it wasn't not so easy economically here.

So making a good bread it was a good idea of Ronaldo to sell the floor.

Ronaldo, a four-time Italian rally champion, was a big character in Marco's town, Adria.

But he wasn't just known for his racing.

He was also president of the football club, he did charity work and he was often seen helping out his parents flourmil.

And crucially he was fiercely competitive.

So when Ronaldo decided to create a new bread, no one doubted him.

He knew he had access to good quality flour.

He just needed some expertise to help.

And in 1982 he recruited bakers Francesco Favarone and Ronaldo Criminacy to help.

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