To stay up to date on all the news that you need to know, there's no better place than right here on the DSR network.

And there's no better way to enjoy the DSR network than by becoming a member.

Members enjoy an ad-free listening experience, access to our Discord community, exclusive content, early episode access, and more.

Use code DSR 2025 for a 25% off discount on sign-up at the DSR network.com slash buy.

That's code DSR 2025 at the DSR network.com slash buy.

Thank you and enjoy the show. 9, 12, 10, 28, 2, 23.

This is Deep State Radio, coming to you direct from our super secret studio in the third sub-basement of the Ministry of Snark in

Washington, D.C., and from other undisclosed locations across America and around the world.

Hello and welcome to DSR's Words Matter. I'm David Rothkopf, and I'm joined today by

Norm Ornstein, who is sartorially more resplendent

than ever. Norm, to what do we owe the privilege of seeing you in a suit and tie? I mean,

I assume I can't see below the waist, but I is... No, it's just a nice sport coat, and actually,

I brought up the corduroy pants for the first time in the fall season.

But I don't want to disappoint you.

I didn't dress up for you.

Oh.

I would have, but I had an earlier engagement.

I see. But this is how you dressed when you were a professor teaching politics at Catholic University, right?

I actually frequently did wear a jacket and tie. Why, I don't know, but that was the standard back in the day. And did your students go off to become the leaders of America?

I had some quite remarkable students, mostly at Catholic University.

I had Tom Donnellan, who I sure you know well from the first morning of the first day of his freshman year all the way through.

An interesting long story about how that experience actually shaped a number of careers.

...