COVID-19: What We Learned (and Didn't) About Masks, Lockdowns, and Vaccines
The Michael Shermer Show
Michael Shermer
4.3 • 1K Ratings
🗓️ 27 September 2025
⏱️ 67 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The COVID-19 pandemic was a devastating global event, killing more than seven million people, straining the fabric of societies, and shaking the foundations of the world economy. And yet, as horrifying as the experience was, COVID-19 was not "The Big One" — the dreaded pandemic that haunts the nightmares of epidemiologists and public health officials everywhere. That far deadlier outbreak is still ahead of us, and it will reshape life across the planet unless we're ready for it.
In this episode, Dr. Michael Osterholm, one of the world's leading infectious disease experts, explains what we got wrong, what we got right, and what it all reveals about our preparedness for the next great pandemic.
Michael Osterholm is Regents Professor and McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health at the University of Minnesota, where he founded and directs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP). An internationally renowned epidemiologist with fifty years of experience, he's led major outbreak investigations worldwide and authored over 350 papers. He served as a U.S. State Department science envoy from 2017-2019. His new book is The Big One: How We Must Prepare for Future Deadly Pandemics.
Transcript
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| 1:11.5 | You're listening to The Michael Shermer Show. |
| 1:23.7 | All right. |
| 1:24.6 | Hey, everybody. |
| 1:25.2 | It's Michael Shermer. |
| 1:25.9 | It's time for another episode of the Michael Shermer show. |
| 1:27.7 | My guest today is Dr. Michael Osterholm, Regents Professor McKnight, Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, |
| 1:35.9 | and the founding director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, |
| 1:41.1 | Sidrap, at the University of Minnesota. |
| 1:47.7 | An internationally renowned epidemiologist, he has been at the forefront. |
| 1:53.1 | A public health preparedness has led many outbreak investigations of international importance. |
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