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etui.podcast

Counter-app (1/4): Negotiating the algorithm

etui.podcast

ETUI

Non-profit, Business

0.00 Ratings

🗓️ 20 November 2025

⏱️ 24 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Counter-app series explores how app-based workers can counter the power of their algorithmic bosses. Each episode is based on cutting-edge research by the European Trade Union Confederation on platform work and how workers are resisting digitised exploitation. In this first episode, Ben Wray looks at what algorithmic management is, how it affects workers and what data tools and tactics workers can use to 'negotiate the algorithm'.

The episode is based on a trade union manual to Negotiating the Algorithm published by the ETUC in September, which you can download here: https://www.etuc.org/en/publication/fair-platforms-project-thematic-reports

Structure

  • 00:00 - 00:58: Introduction 
  • 00:59 - 03:33: Part 1: What is algorithmic management? 
  • 03:34 - 08:35: Part 2: What problems do workers face from algorithmic management? 
  • 08:36 - 12:07: Part 3: How do workers ‘negotiate the algorithm’? 
  • 12:08 - 19:50: Part 4: What are workers’ data tools? 
  • 19:51 - 22:03: Part 5: How do unions build their data capacities? 
  • 22:04 - 23:55: Conclusion  

Credits 

Background music: ‘Embrace’, by Evgeny Bardyuzha (downloaded with a creative commons licence from pixabay.com

Interviews were conducted in-person with Fiachra Ó Luain, Lucie Morpurgo and Daniel Cruz in Nicosia, Cyprus, September 2025. Thanks to all. 

Ben Wray (2022). ’Data Power in the gig economy: Interview with data expert Jessica Pidoux’. The Gig Economy Project.https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XwcoHYn2FkcmHPU2FQbrU 

Ben Wray (2022). ‘Algorithms, Work and the European Directive: Interview with James Farrar and Sergi Cutillas’. The Gig Economy Project.https://open.spotify.com/episode/3UEBpCVRN3bRjw14Xu1YGX 

Sarah Beckmann (2023), ‘The Shipt Calculator: Crowdsourcing Gig Worker Pay Data to Audit Algorithmic Management’. MIT Media.https://www.media.mit.edu/videos/hd-shipt-app-tracker-2023-02-22/ 

Eric Gardner (2024). 'NEW: We put 7 Uber & Lyft drivers in one room and had them open their apps.’ More Perfect Union.https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1833187863498002850 

The Modern Mann (2025). ‘Interview: Revenge Of Gig Worker Armin Samii’. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgKL7z4Ovw 

Bethany Staunton, Silvia Rainone (2025). ‘What makes the Platform Work Directive a milestone? (etui.podcast)’. ETUI.https://www.etui.org/news/what-makes-platform-work-directive-milestone-etuipodcast

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hello and welcome to counter app, a series of podcasts about how app-based workers can counter the power of their algorithmic bosses.

0:23.2

My name is Ben Ray, I'm a journalist and researchers specialising in the platform economy.

0:29.8

In this first episode, we will explore what is algorithmic management?

0:36.5

What problems do workers experience when they are algorithmically managed?

0:41.3

How do workers negotiate the algorithm? What tools and techniques do workers use to recover their data and why?

0:51.3

And how do trade unions build their data capacities?

0:55.0

So let's get started. Part 1. What is algorithmic management? Algorithm sound and are often assumed to be highly complex, but at its heart an algorithm is simply a set of rules which are followed to solve a problem.

1:25.7

So let's say the problem is which food delivery courier should be assigned the food delivery.

1:32.7

A simple algorithmic rule would be that the food delivery courier who is closest to the delivery

1:37.7

point should be assigned the delivery.

1:41.2

Geolocation data would identify the closest courier and they would be assigned the delivery.

1:47.0

This is a very simplified example of algorithmic management, but it tells us the fundamentals of how algorithmic management really works.

1:57.0

Automated or semi-automated data processing is used to take in information and give

2:04.5

out instructions to workers. These instructions can change constantly based on new information

2:11.4

which is collected, but the instructions are always based on a set of rules which have been

2:17.2

designed by human managers.

2:20.3

Algorithms do not do anything which bosses do not want them to do.

2:25.3

What algorithmic management achieves for companies is it allows them to gather in much more information

2:32.3

and change their instructions in response to that information

2:35.8

much faster than before the digital age. A time when supervisors and middle managers

2:43.0

would have done all of this work manually. Algorithmic management is in fact a data revolution

2:49.6

for companies. But what about the data capacities of workers?

...

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