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The Story

Could Ukraine really join Nato? A former secretary-general answers

The Story

The Times

Current Affairs, Daily News Podcast, News Analysis, Politics, News, Audio Storytelling, Uk News, Exclusive Interviews, Investigative Reporting, In-depth Journalism, Daily News, Long-form Audio, Global News

3.91.6K Ratings

🗓️ 9 July 2023

⏱️ 34 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The biggest and most controversial issue for the 31 member nations at the Nato summit in Lithuania tomorrow will be whether to offer fast-track membership to Ukraine. Would this be a step too far – or has the invasion by Russia made it inevitable? We speak to a former Nato secretary-general.

This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. Subscribe today: thetimes.co.uk/storiesofourtimes.

Guest: Lord George Robertson, Nato secretary-general, 1999-2004. 

Host: Manveen Rana. 

Clips: NATO History, Woodrow Wilson Centre, AP Archive, Voice of America, PA Media, BBC News, Sky News, Channel 4 News, Reuters. 

This podcast was brought to you thanks to subscribers of The Times and The Sunday Times. To enjoy unlimited digital access to all our journalism subscribe here.


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Transcript

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0:00.0

Ever since Russia invaded Ukraine, Vladimir Putin in speech after speech has continually

0:13.9

tried to blame NATO for his actions.

0:17.2

The choice of pathways towards ensuring security should not pose a threat to other states,

0:24.3

whereas Ukraine, joining NATO, is a direct threat to Russia's security.

0:30.7

NATO began active military development of the territories adjacent to ours.

0:38.2

This was an absolutely unacceptable threat, systematically created for us and right on our borders.

0:47.1

NATO may not be fighting in Ukraine, but it's still seen as the greatest threat to Russia.

0:53.8

For Putin, this is a war based on history, and in particular, his version of it.

1:02.2

He claims, and this is fiercely disputed by people who were there, that the Americans

1:07.5

agreed in 1990 that NATO wouldn't expand any further.

1:14.3

But it has, taking in many of Russia's neighbours, like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania,

1:21.3

Putin was terrified that Ukraine and NATO were becoming too close.

1:29.0

Do you realise that if Ukraine joins NATO and decides to take Crimea back through military

1:35.3

means, the European countries will automatically get drawn into military conflict with Russia?

1:43.8

But if the war in Ukraine was supposed to keep NATO at bay, then it's failed.

1:49.3

As NATO has expanded again.

1:53.0

We welcome Finland as the news member of our alliance.

1:58.0

Thirty-one flags flying together as a symbol of unity and our solidarity.

2:04.9

And again.

2:06.0

I look forward to also welcoming Sweden into the alliance as soon as possible.

2:14.5

And now, ironically, it could be about to expand yet again.

2:20.5

Ukraine is ready to be NATO.

...

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