Welcome to the podcast Think Biblically, Conversations on Faith and Culture.

I'm your host Scott Ray, Dean of Faculty and Professor of Christian Ethics at

Talbot School of Theology here at Biola University.

And I'm your co-host, Sean Macau, Professor of Apologetics at Talbot School Theology

Biola University.

We're here with our special guest today, Dr. Mark Yarrhaushouse who holds an endowed chair in psychology

at Wheaton College, served for several years in the endowed chair at Regent

University. He also has the Center for Sexuality and Gender that Wheaton speaks and writes widely in areas related to sexuality and gender identity.

And Mark and his colleague, and Mark, I'm going to let you pronounce the name of your colleagues

so I don't butcher her name.

Yes, it's Dr. Olya's Oursets.

Their new book is based on a study of the gay Christian community entitled

costly obedience and advertises the most comprehensive study to date of this particular community.

Mark, we're so glad you've written this book and engaged in this study and

really anxious to hear about some of the findings that you've

written about some of the findings that the study has made manifest so

thanks so much for being with us we look forward to this conversation yeah thank you for just inviting me and giving me a chance to talk a little bit about I think what's a really important topic and a challenging one in the church today.

So maybe we'll start with this. How would you describe the

change in the way the church has addressed LGBT men and women in the last say the

last 30-40 years? Yeah, so I think the change, I think one of the greatest shifts has probably been around the ex-gay storyline.

So the idea of people moving from gay to straight

that was a much more prominent narrative for a long time, I think, in

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