Hi, everyone. Harry here. We're doing something a little bit different with this episode. We've got a

two-fer for you today. Up first, a conversation I had for the podcast with the great Anne Applebaum.

But after that, there's a bit of a bonus. It's a recording of a substack live I did earlier this year with another superb student of international authoritarianism, Ruth Ben Guiat.

If you're a substack subscriber, you'll know that I host these live conversations on the platform every couple weeks.

Paid subscribers get full access to the recordings starting a day or two after they are taped.

We'll be doing more of these in the coming year, so if you enjoy the conversation with Ruth,

consider heading over to the Talking Fed's substack to follow along.

One last piece of housekeeping about the conversation you're going to hear between me

and Anne Applebaum.

A few things have changed since we've spoken.

The U.S. has somewhat toned down, its rhetorical willingness and support for throwing Zelensky under the bus,

and the Europeans yet again have come forward to do their best to bolster Ukraine without

American help. But largely, things are where they stood. And the conversation is a really

pressing one to understand the personal and

political motivations behind Trump's willingness to abandon Ukraine's fight for freedom.

Talk to you later.

Welcome to Talking Fed's One-on-one, deep-dive discussions with national figures about the most

fascinating and consequential issues defining our culture and shaping our lives. I'm your host,

Harry Littman. The Russia-Ukraine war has seemed in

recent weeks to have taken a bad turn for Ukraine, the good guys, by any sensible and moral

evaluation of U.S. interests, but not by the calculations of Trump and his circle, some of whom

are busy planning ways to enrich

...