Gide, humans. I can't quite believe that I'd never met today's guest, John Saffran.

He's a, he's a, I was going to say he's a legend of Australian broadcasting, but that sort of, that gives him more gravitas and authority than he would probably want to have.

He's been a troublemaker, a bet noir, a young upstart for nigh on 50 years now. Well, he's almost

50. I suppose his career isn't. But he's the sort of guy who exploded onto the scene in Australia

in his mid-20s on a show in the 90s called Race Around the World, which I won't go into

explaining because we talk about it in the interview.

But this is a way of understanding where he sits.

He's always been on the periphery.

He's always been on the outside.

He's always been lobbing hand grenades at the powerful in Australia and around the world.

His new book is about a fascinating subject that I hadn't even heard about,

which is the attempt by Philip Morris, the huge tobacco giant, to create a future beyond smoking for its tobacco products and the kind of weasily corporatist way that they're doing that,

and the way that the public, including on the left,

are so gullible when companies like Philip Morris do all the right things in terms of being politically correct and woke and being pro-LGBT,

at the same time as they're shoving tobacco down the throats of poor people, mostly people of colour around the world.

One way of getting an understanding of John is just to read the first few lines of his Wikipedia.

I don't normally do this, but listen to this.

John Michael Safran is an Australian radio personality satirist documentary maker and author,

known for combining humour with religious, political and ethnic issues.

Saffran's known for his television stunts, which include placing a fatwa on Australian television

host Rove McManus, he was sort of like the J. Lennon of Australia, sneaking nine young men

into an exclusive Melbourne nightclub by disguising them as members of the American band Slipknot

...