And the Hey everyone. It's Andrew Clavin with this week's interview with

Gewinder Bogal. You know I one of the reasons I don't write a lot of book

reviews is I don't like panning books books I know how hard it is to write books and it's easy to pan them

It's easy to be funny while you're tearing somebody who's work apart. So I don't write a lot of book reviews but one of the mean of book reviews I ever wrote was in 2011 for the

Wall Street Journal I reviewed a book called Reality is Broken by Jane McGonigal who had the

hilarious title of the Director of Games at the Palo Alto

based Institute for the Future.

And I've always regretted writing it because I'm sure she's a nice lady and I tore the book apart, but I don't take back a word of it.

Her thesis was that real life isn't as fun or as rewarding as video games and

so all of life should be fixed to be more like the games.

And at one point she wrote about the game HALO, which I'm sure many of you have played

extremely popular first person shooter and they had this thing

where they had a great war and when they announced that they had scored 10 billion

kills of the covenant who were the bad guys McGonagall wrote that players were carried away by a sense that their actions in the

Great War had meaning and she wrote,

HALO is only a game but she says just because the kills don't have value

doesn't mean they don't have meaning.

Meaning is the feeling that we're a part of something bigger than ourselves.

It's the belief that our actions matter beyond our own individual lives.

And I responded, no, that's actually not what meaning is meaning is

when those feelings and beliefs refer to something true. What I didn't realize

is that this was part of a movement in Silicon Valley of gamification and one of the things

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