Pushkin.

It's hard to read the news these days without asking yourself, how did we get here?

Fiasco is a history podcast for the co-creators of Slow Burn.

In our first season, Bush v. Gore, we examined an unmistakable turning point in American

politics, the 2000 election, which resulted in a high-stakes stalemate, ended with one of the most

controversial rulings in Supreme Court history. So if you're trying to make sense at the present

moment, check out Fiasco, Bush v. Gore. Listen on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

From Pushkin Industries, this is deep background, the show where we explore the stories behind the stories in the news.

I'm Noah Feldman.

When we all come out from social isolation after the coronavirus pandemic finally ends, and I'm assuming it will,

we will emerge changed, and we will emerge into a changed world. Is there a chance that one of

those changes will be that we've become more environmentally friendly, or at least more

environmentally aware? Are there things we could be doing now while everything is on pause that could have a long-lasting impact on the health of our planet?

Or are things going to go the other way?

Is our need to restart our economy going to overwhelm our impulse to improve the environment? Might the enormous cost of the bailouts we're

engaged in now actually deter us from investing in a serious way into transformation of our energy

system to fight climate change? To discuss these pressing questions, I'm joined by Bill McKibbin.

Bill's a central figure in the history of the

climate change struggle. He was one of the first people to write and advocate about climate change

almost 30 years ago in his bestselling book, The End of Nature. He's been a central figure in the

climate change movement ever since, a writer for the New Yorker, and the

founder of the grassroots climate campaign 350.org. Among other distinctions, Bill is also the

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