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Impolitic with John Heilemann

Conway & Stevens: Kilmar’s Fate, Harvard’s Fight & America's Last Best Hope

Impolitic with John Heilemann

Audacy | Puck

News, Politics

4.84.2K Ratings

🗓️ 21 April 2025

⏱️ 69 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

John is joined by a pair of former GOP panjandrums turned NeverTrump stalwarts — attorney George Conway and political strategist Stuart Stevens — to discuss the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case and Donald Trump’s efforts to turn the U.S. into a police state. Conway and Stevens argue that the guardrails preventing that outcome are banged up but still holding; that the real test of them will come when (not if) the administration defies the Supreme Court even more flagrantly than it has already; and that Harvard is offering the kind of a master class in resistance to MAGA bullying that many of the nation’s top law firms have been too gutless and/or greedy to provide. They also explain why Trump’s economic illiteracy and its consequences may prove to be what saves American democracy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Aloha and Namaste everyone and welcome to Mpolitik with John Heilman, a puck and

0:10.4

Odyssey joint featuring lively, in-depth conversations with the people who roam the quarters of power

0:14.7

and influence in America, weaving the warp and wharf and weft of our politics and culture.

0:19.6

Unless you are a super godless heathen or on one hell

0:24.4

of a seven-day blackout bender, you're aware that last week was for Lutherans, Anglicans,

0:30.4

Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, and all the rest of the random Christian denominations around the

0:36.0

world, Holy Week, which was, of course, ironic,

0:40.2

given the extremely unholy events that took place in American politics in the course of

0:45.6

that same week. The events in question centered on Donald Trump's appearance last Monday in the

0:50.2

Oval Office alongside El Salvador's president and self-described world's coolest dictator,

0:55.5

Nia Buckele, in which Trump, A, openly flouted and refused to comply with the Supreme Court's

1:01.4

unanimous ruling that his administration had to facilitate the return of Kilmar Obrego-Garcia

1:06.2

to the United States. B, wantonly lied about that ruling, claiming that it said exactly the opposite of what

1:12.6

it plainly did say, calling it a triumphant victory for his administration. C. expressed his desire to

1:19.2

start sending American citizens to penal colonies, aka Goulogs, aka concentration camps in El Salvador.

1:31.4

And D. suggested to the delight of everyone in the room that Buckele get to work on building five more such penal colonies, aka Gulogs, aka concentration

1:38.2

camps, to accommodate the inflow of American citizens that Trump has in mind.

1:42.8

What those events unleashed was a rare kind of harmonic convergence of sane and right-thinking

1:47.1

opinion, whereby outlets and voices across the ideological spectrum from the far, far-far

1:51.9

left, to the liberal small-D Democratic Center, to what used to be considered the rock-rib

1:57.6

conservative right, all arrived at roughly the same conclusion. Take, for example,

2:01.8

the Financial Times, no communist newspaper, Financial Times, which ran the following headline last

...

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