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Hi everybody, I'm alone today, Sammy and Jack aren't with us because I'm doing one of our interviews with Victor Hansen show.

And it's with Michael Pack.

He was the former director of the US Agency for Global Media during the Trump administration.

And he's here to talk about the business of documentary films,

especially documentary films as a means of reaching people in a way that they haven't before.

And he's here with his son Thomas Pack, who runs an incubator program to attract young filmmakers,

documentary filmmakers, and give them advice and an environment to produce and to distribute their films.

But before we go on, we'll have a brief break and I'll be right back.

Thank you very much. We're back with Michael Pack. Michael, I've known you a long time.

One of the things that's remarkable, you've done, I know you're on the conservative side with the rest of us,

but you've done a number of films that are on white topics that were sort of transcending Paul.

I know you did that very famous one, just not too recently on Clarence Thomas,

but you did one with the Eli Wallick as a narrator, didn't you?

That's right. My very first major film called Hollywood's Favorite Heavy back in 1987,

which was about how Hollywood and portrays business and businessmen, especially on Primetime TV.

And we went in an interview with a bunch of film producers and talked a little about business.

And they had some interesting ideas, including like from Normand Lear to producers of Dallas and Dynasty.

...