Hi, I'm Willow Belden and you're listening to Out There, the podcast that explores big questions through intimate stories outdoors.

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Thank you. promo code out there at checkout. On this episode, we're going to have a conversation that might be slightly uncomfortable

if you consider yourself an environmentalist.

We're going to talk about what happens when conservation efforts end up having

side effects that are pretty questionable. My guest is Michael Beninoff. He's the author of a book

called Himalaya Bound. The book follows a group of nomads in India who are desperately clinging to the lifestyle they've led for generations.

These nomads are the epitome of low footprint people.

They live in such perfect harmony with nature that they're actually helping their environment rather than hurting it.

But these people, who do so much for their natural habitat are being threatened, ironically, by efforts aimed at conservation.

The people in question are a tribe called the Von Gujarrs.

And as my guest, Michael Beninoff, explained to me, they live in northern India.

They are buffalo herders.

And so they live traditionally anyways out in the wilderness,

either in the forests and the jungles or up in the high mountains with their herds of buffaloes.

And they migrate seasonally. So they spend the fall and winter months down in these lowland jungles.

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