from WNYC Studios. I'm Brian Lehrer. This is my daily politics podcast. It's Thursday,

March 27th. David Graham is with a staff writer at the Atlantic and an author of the

Atlantic Daily Newsletter. He's also author of

the book, The Project, How Project 2025, is Reshaping America. We'll talk mostly about two things.

David Graham is writing about the accidental release to the Atlantic's editor, his boss,

Jeffrey Goldberg, of the Pentagon's attack plans for the recent bombings of the Houthis in Yemen via text messages and the commercial app signal, not a government-level secure platform.

And he had a piece last week called A Warning for Columbia University.

Surrendering to the Trump administration's $400 million ransom demand would be a disaster for higher education and for the United States.

David, thanks for coming on. Welcome back to WNYC.

Thank you for having me.

On Columbia, want to summarize your warning as you use that word?

Yeah, I mean, I think the warning is, although there may be things that

people are troubled about at Columbia, trying to find accommodation with the Trump administration,

trying to do something that will sort of get them off of your back, is never a good deal.

It's only a start. They will keep coming back for more. And so once you start giving up independence and you start giving up control, you have opened up the door to more from Trump.

And your article reminds us of some of the basics.

In a letter earlier this month, the Trump administration sought to dictate how the university disciplined students involved in pro-Palestinian protests last year

structures its disciplinary process handles masking on campus and runs its admissions.

It also demands that the university begin the process of placing its Department of Middle Eastern,

South Asian, and African Studies under, quote, academic receivership for a

minimum of five years, as the administration put it. You describe it as a process where universities

put departments that have failed to govern themselves under the supervision of some university

...