It's the Brian Laird Show on WNYC.

Good morning again, everyone.

Some more news about Columbia University and the Trump administration yesterday

comes in the context of a generational collision of values

and a project 2025-style push connected to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Groups like the Heritage Foundation, which gave us Project 2025, and the Anti-Defamation League,

are trying to tie anti-Zionism more to anti-Semitism. Colombia just accepted

a piece of that, as Jewish students themselves and other Jewish young adults are feeling

less attached to Israel as part of their identity. And all that comes as anti-Semitic hate crimes

have become significantly more frequent in New York and the U.S. in recent years.

The news from Columbia is that the school officially accepted a definition of anti-Semitism

that the Jewish newspaper The Forward calls controversial for its categorization of some forms

of Israel criticism as anti-Semitic. Some other parts of the Columbia Agreement may be less controversial as the school tries

to get $400 million in suspended federal grant money back, much of it for medical research,

that the Trump administration froze over allegations of anti-Semitism and failures to address it.

We'll touch on some of those other changes,

too. But for this conversation, we will mostly center the question, when is anti-Zionism,

anti-Semitism, and when is it not? And we'll ask, who's arguing for what definition to be enshrined

at Columbia and elsewhere, and why? We have two guests from that Jewish-oriented news site,

the forward, Arno Rosenfeld, who writes a newsletter called Anti-Semitism Decoded.

And we have Katie J.M. Baker, a national investigative correspondent for the New York Times.

You might have heard Katie on the Times podcast the Daily this week.

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