Two Titans of Silicon Valley, one prize, dominance in the world of artificial intelligence.

Supremacy is the real story behind the struggle to own our digital future and potentially the very nature of human experience.

Supremacy by Parmy Olson, described as a riveting tale by the new scientist, winner of the Financial

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Listen to the audiobook of Supremacy Now.

Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots. I'm James Seale. I'm joined today by the historians,

Anthony Beaver and Peter Frank Van. Now, this weekend, it marks 80 years since the end of the Second World War.

So Anthony, how do you think our memory, our collective memory of that, has changed in the intervening decades since that occasion.

Well, I think we're in a very, very strange moment. History is seldom tidy, and normally

there are overlaps and unfinished business stretching from one era to another. But suddenly,

in 80 years, as we are now, after the end of the Second World War, which established an international

order of respect, sovereignty, and for borders, we're facing a guillotine moment, which

cuts us off completely from the past. We're back to the 1930s idea of dictators that might

is right. And I wonder, Peter, I mean, it's not just, of course,

in terms of military power as well. We see all across the globe the kind of tenants of the post-war era, however good or bad they may have been, but seemingly collapsed. You know, you look, for instance, at the kind of post-Bresson-Woods financial system, what remains of that, you see, look at the ECHR. Why do you think now so many kind of these shibbolists, these great

institutions of that era are now being challenged? Well, I think the first thing is that who they're

been challenged by. I mean, I think that most people recognize that there's a sort of new access

emerging. And it's a very loose grouping, I suppose, bricks or, you know, bricks plus places like

China, Russia, Iran, India, Brazil,

asking for greater sharing global governance.

But I think it's important to note that it's not just coming from developing world or from autocracies.

When Markerubio is being sworn in his Senate hearing to be Secretary of State in January,

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