Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the Spectator's Daily Politics Podcast. I'm

Oskrembudsman, and I'm joined today by James Heel and Carl Williams, who is a research director

at CPS think tank. Now, Nigel Farage has today unveiled his mass deportations plan.

We'll get into the sort of nuts and bolts of what's been announced shortly. But James, you were there and it sounds like you've been on

quite the magical mystery tour today. Yes, absolutely. So at 745 this morning at Millbank Tower,

the home of Reform UK, a bunch of hacks piled onto a bus, not sure where we were going on this magical mystery tour. We were led to an airfield. And my first thought was the great escape when, of course, they all get let out and shot. My second thought was, are we the ones being deported? But no, not at all. And we were led into this aircraft hangar where in true reform style, we now have the patented form of Aaron Lobo's

pyrotechnics in terms of fireworks at reform conference but this day it was more at staging

and they really have gone big on the visuals and so it was a huge Indian Jack which some

organisers was suggesting is one of the biggest in the country behind Nigrush and then around him

all the staging of a sort of

Heathrow departure lounge and so there all these locations listed on the wall there and it was things

like gates 34 etc to Eritre etc I mean it looks like they've spent a lot of money on that set I think

they've planned it a long time they've known this was coming as I wrote about in June the spectator

they were planning to have the deportation especially by the end of summer and they've done it a week time, they've known this was coming. As I wrote about in June, the spectator, they were planning to have the deportation, especially by the end of summer, and they've done

it a week for party conference. For them, it's just been six long weeks of which they can just dominate the airwaves. Everyone comes back to this political economy model, championed by reform, where it's all about the boats, migration, asylum issues. So every time, Labour or the concept to try to talk about something else. It all comes back to this. And really what we saw today was a souped up version of reforms, Rasmataz,

which they've borrowed and learned a lot from the Trump playbook. Yeah, no, it seems like it.

So let's get into the detail then, James. What are some of the big headlines as part of this policy?

So essentially they're going to derogate from a number of human rights treaties that we've signed up to in the UK. The Human Rights Act, they're going to, they're going to disapply that, they're going to repeal that, they're going to disapply the Refugees Convention for the next five years, the Convention on Torture as well. and as well as changing the legal framework first in the UK,

they also then want to, for instance, introduce a British Bill of Rights to supplement and replace the ECHR law.

They also want to change the rule of law in terms of the powers that judges have to intervene in immigration cases.

And they also want to have a new deportation command. They've put a figure two billion in terms of what they're going to spend in order to incentivise people to get deported. There will be a period whereby they can try and get people to leave voluntarily within a six-month period. They would be paid, I think it was £2,500,000 in order to self-deport. And if not, they would be involuntary deported as well. So an attempt really to kind of build on what's already out there and to try and show how they would do it in control. Now, of course, a lot of us have heard similar ideas before. Reform has some answers. They produced a sort of four-page pamphlet laying out their strategy. They, for instance, would say that the Foreign Office would be instructed to make this their number one priority. We know important, of course, government priorities are in the foreign office speaking to people in there. They have multiple different competing things. So this is their number one thing that's going to be their strategy. Of course, it then leads to other questions, such as, for instance, one of the things that featured in the journalist Q&A was, does this not simply mean you're going to be negotiating with pre-unsavory regimes? And Frasier's point, basically, you know, it's regretful. It's a matter of some remorse. But equally, we've got to put this first. So that's their kind of answer to those difficult questions which they'll be facing with their own government. Overall, I think it went down pretty well with those in the rooms. And I think Farage was quick to make the point about how public opinion and shifting on all this, but of course it will mean that there's more questions to be answered. My understanding is that this was based on a serious amount of work over the past six months or so, about 100 pages of documentation. They've put out for the argument being is that they don't want to really show all their homework to the lawyers who then might spend four years tooling up, as it were. Inevitably, there'll be more work to go. And I think talking to some people in reform, they accept that they will, although they're very proud of this document and think that it's a good sort of map to get there, they'll accept that more work will need to be done as Arnaillus King's. Particular questions, of course, will be around the British Bill of Rights, what form that takes, the Good Friday Agreement, what it means for that, the ECHR, and also resources as well.

And one point I'm sort of keen to stress is that I think we only have about 10,000 border force officials. You know, if you're going to be detaining and deporting grown men, I think you need about six men to physically restrain them and put them on a plane. Will there be enough resources in that respect as well? So lots of different things. But I suspect for the

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