Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast.

A podcast all about leadership, change, and personal growth.

The goal, to help you lead like never before.

In your church or in your business.

And now your host, Carrie Newhoff.

Well, hey everybody, and welcome to episode 36 of the podcast.

My name is Carrie Newhoff.

Hey, thanks for hanging out,

and I hope our time together today helps you lead

like never before.

And my guest today is somebody, I think a lot of you will probably know, you'll recognize his name.

Maybe you've read one of his books, or you read his blog or listen to his podcast.

His name is Tom Rayner and Tom is just one of those influencers in the church and he has written an

awful lot about how to transition churches and that's one of the things I love

about Tom is you know a lot of people plant churches and we talk

about church plants here I planted a church but I've also transitioned to church and

it's different in fact in many ways it's more challenging I don't know whether it's more challenging. I mean church planning is tough too, but anyway, it's going to be a fascinating interview and we're going to talk about why churches die. Like what are what are the reasons? And this can be true of church plants too plants too right I mean you can be 18 months old and going hmm I'm not sure this is going anywhere

That's what Tom and I are going to talk about today. So you're in for a treat, thanks for hanging out with us.

And hey, we always record these a little bit in advance.

That's what I like to do.

I like to get a couple of months ahead

and on the interviews and then I usually record this part of the podcast. A couple of weeks before broadcast, so this is like the

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