Climate Ambition vs Energy Reality

TALKING POLITICS

Catherine Carr

News, News & Politics

4.7 • 2.5K Ratings

🗓️ 4 November 2021

⏱️ 52 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

David and Helen talk to Jason Bordoff, Dean of the Columbia Climate School and former Special Assistant to Barack Obama, about climate, COP26 and the enormous challenges of the energy transition. How can we balance the need for energy security with the need to wean the world off its dependency on fossil fuels? Why is China still so reliant on coal? Who will pay for the energy needs of the developing world? Plus, just how scared are the oil companies of public opinion? You can read more of Jason’s work here.

Talking Points:

Energy transition will require a lot of capital investment.

Clean energy tends to be more capital intensive in the short term; although the long-term operating costs are lower.
Private capital needs to be mobilized to make this happen.
Can large financial institutions forgo significant returns if oil prices go back up?

There is a clash between climate ambition and energy reality.

The reality is that, despite tremendous advances in clean energy, oil and gas usage are still going up.
The more the ambition is elevated, the bigger this gap becomes.

During a lockdown that shut down half of the global economy, carbon emissions only fell 6%.

To reach the 1.5 degree target, emissions need to decrease much more quickly.
We might start seeing more disruptive and ambitious policies on the table in coming years. Or, maybe not.
When questions of energy affordability, reliability, and security come into tension with climate ambition, there is a risk that climate ambition will lose.
Is increasing efficiency enough, or will energy consumption also need to go down?

In many parts of the world, energy use will actually need to increase in the coming decades.

What is needed to make significant investments in clean energy in the developing world financially viable?

Some people, like John Kerry, hoped that the U.S. and China might find a point of consensus on climate.

In practice, that has not really happened.
Could economic competition be a more effective driver than cooperation?

If we always see high oil prices as a political problem that we can’t afford, then how will we get to the point at which we allow high prices to reduce demand?

The United States is the world’s largest oil producer, but the U.S. government has much less control over American oil and gas producers than OPEC states do.
Should we be talking more about energy and less about climate?

Mentioned in this Episode:

Further Learning:

How much will it cost the UK to reach net zero?

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello, my name is David Runseman and this is Talking Politics. Today we're discussing climate change in COP26, but also the enormous social and political challenge of the energy transition.
0:20.0	Talking Politics is brought to you in partnership with the London Review of Books, Europe's leading review of culture and ideas.
0:31.0	And the LRB is returning to first principles with their latest exclusive offer for Talking Politics listeners, get 12 issues of the magazine for just 12 pounds and they'll also send you one of their surprisingly famous tote bags,
0:46.0	acclaimed by the likes of New York magazine and vice. Just use the URL mylrb.co.uk slash talking bag. That's mylrb.co.uk slash talking bag.
1:03.0	This is a conversation that Helen and I recorded with Jason Bordoff. Jason is at COP26. He is the co-founder of the Columbia Climate School.
1:23.0	But before that he was a special assistant to Barack Obama on energy and climate change and he's held a series of senior policy positions across three White House administrations.
1:35.0	He was rushing between meetings at COP26 so we caught him on the run. There's a little bit of interference on the line with some of this conversation. Please stick with it. It's really interesting.
1:48.0	We started by talking about what his takeaway has been so far from what's happening in Glasgow.
1:55.0	I think the news here in Glasgow is good but we still have a long way to go. It's there has been world leaders coming together.
2:04.0	We saw significant levels of ambition. That's a big change. We saw some meaningful commitments on issues like methane that can make a huge dent in near term warming.
2:18.0	We're still short of where we need to be. We need to combine pledges. We need to be skeptical about that.
2:38.0	The US's own political system is causing some problems in Washington. I think the other part of what's happening in Glasgow is not the public sector but the private sector.
2:59.0	We know that somewhere in the order of $100 trillion between now and 2050 is needed. We have additional investment in the energy infrastructure because clean energy tends to be more capital intensive.
3:10.0	Lower operating costs in the long term when you build solar and wind. We don't have the fuel and commodity prices costs but you have to put the capital up front to build that kind of infrastructure.
3:20.0	We need a lot more capital coming into the energy system. You see some pretty significant commitments being made.
3:35.0	We need to put together a lot more capital in the energy system. We need to put together a lot more capital in the energy system.
3:53.0	Can I just ask you on this, Jason, which do you think is the most important part of this? Is it about the private sector and investment capital on the huge sums of money that are required in order to make these targets?
4:11.0	Is it about the cost of the money that is required in order to make these targets? Is it about the cost of the money that is required in order to make these targets?
4:29.0	Is it about the cost of the money that is required in order to make these targets? Is it about the cost of the money that is required in order to make these targets?
4:43.0	I think it's very important, the private sector understanding of the scale of capital reallocation that is needed. It is necessary but not sufficient because it does need to be supported by policy to get as far as we need it to go.
4:58.0	It is important that we have increasing social pressures on financial institutions and others to move capital in cleaner directions. It is important that there are increasing signals from consumers. That is what they expect of businesses that they do business with, but they buy products from, especially among the younger demographics.
5:17.0	It is important that the economic growth of the economy is not limited to that. It is important that the economic growth of the economy is not limited to that.
	...

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