You've entered the Paracast with your host, Gene Steinberg and David Beedley.

You know, I have been in and out of the UFO field for so many years.

I can't begin to count them, I think, more than most people have been alive.

But it reaches a point where you get really fascinated by the mystery and the majesty of the subject

that maybe we're seeing visitors from other planets, other dimensions.

And then the infighting, the infighting gets you so damned upset that finally you say,

I don't need any more of this. I am going to get back to a regular life.

And then something happens a few years later and you make another attempt to get back into it.

And that's been my experience in the UFO field.

I think it's true for a lot of people.

They don't stay in it continuously.

They go in and out.

Well, I think you have to build a real skin to deal with all of that in fighting.

I think you have to really be someone who doesn't

mind being subjected to mudsling gene. And I've had a good amount of experience with that

in the computer graphics industry and high tech in general. You and I both are big supporters

of a Mac platform. And for a lot of years, I received all sorts of junk from

people about being a Mac user. So they say get a real computer. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so you

sort of build up a thick skin to stuff like that, though in the bottom of your heart chain,

when it comes down to it, it's all about the tool and how good the tool is. And for my money,

the Mac was always the superior tool for getting stuff done.

So it was somewhat easy to deal with the insults,

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