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Unbelievable?

Classic: Debating Intelligent Design – Jonathan McLatchie v Cory Markum

Unbelievable?

Premier Unbelievable?

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.62.3K Ratings

🗓️ 24 June 2025

⏱️ 69 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this 2015 episode of Unbelievable, host Justin Brierley moderates a discussion between Christian advocate for Intelligent Design Jonathan McLatchie and atheist blogger Corey Markum. The debate centres on whether God or another form of intelligence is the best explanation for the complexity and apparent design observed in nature. The conversation addresses scientific arguments, the potential biases inherent in human perception of design, and theological implications, especially in regard to the problem of suffering and 'poor' design in biological systems. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview 01:43 Corey Markham's Journey to Atheism 05:51 Jonathan McClatchy's Interest in Intelligent Design 09:44 Defining Intelligent Design 15:48 Corey Markham's Psychological Perspective on Design 20:47 Philosophical and Scientific Critiques of Intelligent Design 26:54 Debating the Validity of Intelligent Design 34:07 Questioning Biological Design 34:33 Possibility of Natural Explanations 35:55 Debating Intelligent Design 38:10 Common Ancestry vs. Intelligent Design 40:11 Scientific Hypotheses and Worldviews 44:14 The Role of Theism in Science 47:56 Evidence and Inference in Intelligent Design 54:55 Challenges to Intelligent Design 58:18 The Problem of Suffering and Design 01:03:14 Concluding Thoughts and Future Discussions • Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast: https://pod.link/267142101 • More shows, free eBook & newsletter: https://premierunbelievable.com • For live events: http://www.unbelievable.live • For online learning: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/training • Support us in the USA: http://www.premierinsight.org/unbelievableshow • Support us in the rest of the world: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/donate

Transcript

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0:00.0

The Bible is God's big story. But where do you begin? Explore the Bible one step at a time with the Bible course new edition.

0:10.2

Taught by Andrew Ollerton, it's an eight-part course featuring Bible experts and personal stories.

0:16.3

With videos, guidebook and digital hub, it will help you feel more confident in understanding the Bible,

0:22.6

connecting with God's Word and applying it to your daily life. Search the Bible course new

0:28.6

edition now. Hello, welcome along to the program. I'm Justin Briley here with you for

0:33.7

Unbelievable. It's the show that brings Christians and non-Christians together. I'm really pleased to say that on today's show we've got two great guests and we're going to be doing a subject we haven't done in a little while.

0:43.3

It's my great pleasure to have in studio with me Jonathan McClatchie and Corey Markham.

0:48.3

And today on the program we're asking, is God the best explanation for apparent design in nature?

0:54.7

Yes, we're going back to an intelligent design debate today.

0:58.2

Jonathan McClatchy, no stranger to that whatsoever.

1:01.2

He's actually currently studying cell biology at a PhD level,

1:04.7

and he's long been an advocate of intelligent design,

1:07.1

the view that Darwinian evolution cannot account for the complexity in biology, and that

1:12.1

design is the best explanation for many features we find in nature.

1:16.2

Well, Corey Markham is new to the program.

1:18.0

He's an atheist and a blogger at the Atheist Republic website.

1:21.4

He actually grew up in a Christian household, but abandoned any faith commitments as a teen,

1:25.4

especially influenced by the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.

1:28.3

You may have heard of that book at some point, but he's studied philosophy. He's very much

1:34.4

involved, actually, with the Facebook site as well. I'm staggered, actually, that Atheist Republic

1:38.9

has over 1.2 million likes on Facebook, which puts unbelievable's meager 6,000 likes on Facebook in the

1:46.8

shade. So it's great to have you both on the program today. Corey, he's been an avid listener

...

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