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A very good afternoon and welcome along to Unbelievable. This is the program that brings Christians and non-Christians together.

For dialogue and debate, I'm Justin Briley and I'll be hosting another interesting

discussion between a Christian and a non-Christian on humanism this week. Let's get into today's

discussion. Well, on today's program, we're asking, did God create humanism? Theo Hobson is the author

of a new book. God created humanism, the Christian basis of secular values, published by SPCK, and he argues

that secular humanism only exists because of the way Christianity shaped Western culture in terms

of our regard for equality and the dignity of human life and so on. Well, in conversation

with Theo today is Andrew Copson, Chief Executive of the British Humanist Association,

one of the key organisations championing humanism in the UK.

He doesn't believe that being good needs to be linked to being religious,

and he's going to be responding to Theo's arguments.

And we'll be asking questions like, do atheist humanists need to admit they are borrowing from a Christian worldview,

or would we all be humanists in the absence of our Christian heritage anyway? What about evolution? Is that driving us inevitably towards some form of humanism in terms of our morality? Or is it just a lucky coincidence we've ended up with the values we have? We'll try and open up some of this stuff and see what our guests have to say on the program today. I'll make sure there are links, of course, to Theo's book and where you can find out

more about the BHA as well, the British Humanist Association, that Andrew is the chief

executive of. So welcome to the program, both gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. Great to have you here. Let's start with you, Theo, as you haven't been on the show before.

But would you like to tell us a little bit of your background? You sort of grew up within a somewhat Christian environment and pursued theology eventually in terms of and then have written quite a few books in the process.

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