Hello and welcome to Overthink.

The podcast where two philosophers think about big ideas in relation to everyday life.

I'm Ellie Anderson.

And I'm David Pena Guzman.

As many of our listeners know, this spring, college campuses nationwide have been the site of protests and encampments over the ongoing conflict in Gaza.

Many of these protests have been driven by calls for universities to divest from companies

that are directly contributing to the genocide, such as producing drones and bombs that kill

civilians. And a number of these protests, including at Pomona College, where I teach, which has a

huge endowment, have led to student arrests.

And these arrests have often been for charges such as trespassing disorderly conduct or obstruction of justice, which is really strange because most of these protests have been

campouts by students on university lawns and quads, which are precisely the places where students are meant to be

and have the right to be, right? So this is where students are students, where they pay to be

students. And so the very notion that they could be trespassing or obstructing on their own campus,

racist really twisty, administrative, educational, and legal issues.

And this raises questions about the nature of civil disobedience, which one of our listeners,

Rachel, suggested that we discuss in an episode.

And so we've decided that it is very timely and it's very important.

And it's something about which philosophy has a lot to say.

So Rachel, thanks for the recommendation.

It's funny because we often plan our episodes months in advance.

But we added this episode a little bit last minute due to the timeliness of the topic.

And we want to talk about it with a very special guest who is Noel McAfee,

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