CIA Clinical Psychologist Ursula Wilder on Profiling World Leaders
Intelligence Matters
CBS News
4.6 • 3.3K Ratings
🗓️ 29 March 2023
⏱️ 47 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In this episode of Intelligence Matters, host Michael Morell speaks with Ursula Wilder, a clinical psychologist at the Central Intelligence Agency, about why intelligence agencies conduct psychological profiles of world leaders, and how past policymakers have used what they have learned to make strategic decisions. Wilder, who also worked in CIA's counterterrorism center and Medical and Psychological Assessments unit, explains the "dark tetrad" of personality -- narcissism, paranoia, Machiavellianism and sadism -- and how those traits can influence how leaders make decisions and engage in negotiations. She and Morell also discuss how policymakers respond to psychological profiles compiled by government agencies.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Dr. Ursula Wilder is a clinical psychologist at the Central Intelligence Agency, where she |
| 0:07.1 | has served for 26 years. |
| 0:09.5 | Her career has included medical, operational, and analytic assignments, including positions |
| 0:14.6 | in CIA's Counterterrorism Center doing operational field work post 9-11. |
| 0:20.1 | The DNI's National Counterterrorism Center is assessing personalities of extremists, and |
| 0:25.0 | CIA's medical and psychological assessment branch, assessing the psychology of world leaders, |
| 0:30.8 | which is the topic of our show today. |
| 0:32.5 | We'll be right back with that discussion after a break. |
| 0:35.7 | I'm Michael Morrell, and this is Intelligence Matters. |
| 0:42.2 | Hey, prime members, you can listen to Intelligence Matters ad-free on Amazon Music. |
| 0:49.7 | Download the app today. |
| 0:54.3 | Ursula, welcome to Intelligence Matters. |
| 0:56.7 | It is great to have you on the show. |
| 0:58.7 | It's great to be here, Michael. |
| 0:59.7 | And I should say that usually we tape these things virtually, but we're lucky today to |
| 1:03.7 | actually have you in the studio. |
| 1:05.3 | So face to face, and that's a really nice thing that we used to do pre-COVID, and now we |
| 1:09.5 | don't do enough. |
| 1:10.5 | So it's great to have you here in person. |
| 1:12.3 | It's a great analog experience to actually speak with a person who had a screen for a change. |
| 1:17.3 | Exactly. |
| 1:18.3 | So I just want to start by saying that I think our listeners will... |
... |
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