Chip Brantley and Andrew Beck Grace on White Lies Season 2

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.4K Ratings

🗓️ 13 March 2023

⏱️ 61 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Chip Brantley and Andrew Beck Grace are the creators of the NPR audio documentary White Lies, which was a Pulitzer finalist for its first season. Chip and Andrew are back for season 2, a story they began reporting in 2015 after they stumbled on an archival photo of a prison riot in Talladega, Alabama. This season focuses on the Mariel boatlift, a 6-month period in 1980 during which 125,000 Cubans emigrated to the United States to seek asylum. What they found is as much an American immigration story as a history of American immigration—and the laws that govern it.

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Chip and Andrew to discuss the legal fictions that prop up the U.S. immigration system, how a country with due process under the law justifies detaining people indefinitely, and their obsession with Lady Bird Johnson’s White House audio diaries.

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair
0:07.2	podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:14.7	That's patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:18.2	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair
0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:55.6	5 million tons of CO2 from the air every year.
0:59.4	If you're feeling impacted by eco-anxiety, eonnext have created a range of resources, such
1:05.4	as guided meditations or green noise soundscapes.
1:09.2	Just search Power Up for Change in your podcasting app.
1:18.8	Race and nativist fears and nativist moral panics were intrigually connected.
1:24.2	I think Mario and our story in many ways explores the way that happened.
1:28.5	We try not to be very didactic about all of that.
1:31.3	We try to sort of layered in with the facts and explore in great detail the role of Reagan's
1:36.2	first Attorney General William French Smith and the way that he used the language of race
1:42.8	to characterize a fear about what open borders might mean or what this moment in American
1:49.6	history might mean if we didn't clamp down on the borders.
1:52.9	Rudy Giuliani was there as his associate attorney general.
1:55.7	It all galvanized this kind of draconian idea of incarcerating people who come into this
2:02.1	country as immigrants.
2:03.8	We would incarcerate them on arrival.
2:06.2	If we didn't know who they were, if we didn't know where they came from, if they arrived
2:09.8	here seeking asylum, the very first thing we do is throw them in prison.
	...

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