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Hello and welcome to Chinese Whispers with me, Cindy Yu. Every episode, I'll be talking to journalists, experts and long-time China

watches about the latest in Chinese politics, society and more. There'll be a smattering of history

to catch you up on the background knowledge and some context as well. How do the Chinese see

these issues? So it's been a month since Joe Biden became president and in that time he's spoken to President Xi of China on the phone.

The day after their phone call, Biden warned senators that, if we don't get moving, they are going to eat our lunch.

He was referring to China's infrastructure project, it's spending on the environment, which we've done a previous episode on, and quote, a whole range of

other things. China's infrastructure is very impressive. It's what allows Chen Yun, the spring

migration for Chinese New Year that happens every year, where migrant workers from their cities

go back to their parental homes. In normal times, that's around 3 billion trips made in the 40

days surrounding Chinese New Year, using trains, roads and less so domestic flights, but there

is the option, which just really underlines the extent of China's domestic connectedness that

has really sprung up in the last few decades. But is it really a point of envy? And certainly

is China eating America's lunch by spending so much on infrastructure? While joining me to

discuss on this episode is the economist and author George Magnus, who's also a research associate

for Oxford University and SOAS. George, to start with, I gave an example of the Chinese new year in my introduction,

but I wondered if you could just paint a picture for people who haven't been to China,

just how extensive China's traditional infrastructure is.

So I'm talking about things like trains, planes, roads, for example.

Yeah, well, I mean, most people who go there for the first few times,

...