China Hates These Two People
The Political Orphanage
Andrew Heaton
4.9 • 1000 Ratings
🗓️ 17 July 2025
⏱️ 98 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Melissa Chan and Badiucao have both been exiled from the People's Republic of China; the former as a journalist and the latter as an artist and political cartoonist.
They join the show to discuss censorship and authoritarianism in China, and their new book, "You Must Take Part in Revolution: A Graphic Novel."
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to the political orphanage, a home for plucky misfits and problem solvers. |
| 0:13.2 | I'm your host, Andrew Heaton. |
| 0:17.0 | I have been to China twice, and I don't plan to go back a third time. |
| 0:22.8 | The first time was at the tail end of my college days when I was doing a study abroad in China. At the time, China was still |
| 0:28.5 | in the process of opening, or at least it very much felt that way. China was enjoying a prolonged |
| 0:34.1 | economic boom from the market reforms of Deng Xiaoping. I recall the president of my |
| 0:38.8 | college, David Boren, talking about how China had started out communist, but was drifting |
| 0:43.7 | towards liberal democracy, whereas America had began as a laissez-faire society, but was increasingly |
| 0:49.6 | appreciating the need for regulation. And we were meeting in the middle, you see. And there was this |
| 0:56.7 | feeling at the time that China was opening up, liberalizing, joining the world. When I visited, |
| 1:03.4 | there was a new book out that was considered very controversial, Mao Zedong, only human. What made |
| 1:10.0 | this book so salacious and controversial was twofold, first, |
| 1:14.6 | that a writer would feel comfortable describing Mao as a human being instead of a god. |
| 1:21.6 | People still thought of Mao as something more than human. I saw his preserved body at the Forbidden City in Beijing |
| 1:29.9 | and watched as people would genuflect and cry in front of his remains the way you might |
| 1:35.7 | honor a saint, the relics of a saint. But the other thing, which made the book controversial, |
| 1:41.4 | was that the government had allowed such a track to be published. |
| 1:45.4 | I didn't read the book. It's in Mandarin, but I gather that the author had acknowledged that Mao, |
| 1:51.0 | while a great man, a great man with very good intentions for the greater good of China, |
| 1:56.9 | he had made some miscalculations. Now, I would say those miscalculations were about 50 million people that starved to death, |
| 2:03.7 | but there were probably some other things in there. |
| 2:05.6 | Either way, acknowledging that Mao had screwed up was not something which would have been |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Andrew Heaton, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Andrew Heaton and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

