Hello and welcome to the GZero World podcast.

This is where you'll find extended versions of my interviews on public television.

I'm Ian Bremmer, and today we are talking about the United States and China and their competing visions for the future.

Over the last two decades, China has transformed into what my guest today calls an engineering state,

a country that can marshal near unlimited resources to build most anything, bridges, bullet trains,

entire cities overnight. That's led to astonishing growth, but also a stubborn belief that

society itself can be engineered for better or for

worse. And despite promises of decades of prosperity, it turns out that China overbuilt by a lot.

It's now dealing with a debt crisis and a stagnating economy. Meanwhile, the United States has

become more cautious, more lawyerly, blocking almost anything

from being built. But that could also be changing. America has been investing big in chips,

in data centers, the technology that will power the roads of our digital future. After last

week's meeting between President Trump and Xi, relations are in a more

stable place, but long term, the U.S.-China relationship will be defined by competition and power

struggle. So who will win the race to build the future? Can the United States learn from China's

rapid rise while avoiding its mistakes? Joining me today is Dan Wong,

technology analyst and author of Breakneck,

China's quest to engineer the future.

Let's get to it. Dan Wong, thanks so much for joining us today.

Great to be here at you.

So lots of ways into the U.S.-China conversation.

I want to start with one that I'm sure you've been asked before, which is you say that in the

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