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Fellow at the Hoover Institution and a professor of political science at Stanford,

Amy Zegart is an expert on intelligence, cyber security and big tech.

She served on President Clinton's National Security Council and she advised

the 2000 presidential campaign of then governor George W. Bush.

Here at the Hoover Institution, Professor Zegart shares the working group on technology,

economics and governance. Amy, welcome.

Thanks, Fedor. It's a pleasure to be here with you.

As we record this, I just note we have news that former defense secretary,

Donald Rumsfeld, just died at the age of 88.

Under Gerald Ford, he was the youngest secretary of defense in history.

And under George W. Bush, he was the oldest secretary of defense in history.

And he knew a lot about the subject we're going to discuss intelligence, security,

and so forth because of course, the defense department has one of the largest,

the defense intelligence agency is a major component.

And you tweeted about it. You have thoughts on the, on how do you placed on Donald Rumsfeld?

Well, I think you know, there's a lot of discussion now.

It's a, it's a, it's a terrible day with Rumsfeld's passing.

He was much more lined for this very famous speech he gave about unknown unknowns

and reference to the Iraq war.

Well, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know.

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