Chatter: The Story of Reality Winner with Tina Satter
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 3 August 2023
⏱️ 57 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In June 2017, FBI agents arrived at the home of Reality Winner, a translator working for the NSA, to question her about an unauthorized leak of classified information concerning Russian interference in U.S. elections. Six years later, Tina Satter’s new film, “Reality,” tells the story of that fateful day, which led to Winner’s imprisonment.
Satter’s screenplay relies almost entirely on a verbatim transcript of Winner’s conversations with the FBI agents. The dialogue is by turns quotidian and suspenseful. "Reality" is partly a psychological thriller as well as an exploration of the mind and motivations of Winner herself. She received the longest prison sentence ever given by a federal court for the unauthorized release of government information to the media.
Shane Harris talked with Satter about her film, which is based on her stage play, “Is This a Room.” Satter says she became fascinated with Winner after reading about her arrest in the press. She thought the transcript had dramatic potential. To Satter, it read like the script for a play, with a list of characters and dialogue. “Is This a Room” received critical praise and won important theatre awards. The movie, “Reality,” is streaming on Max.
Satter began her theatrical career in Portland, Oregon, and has worked with some of the biggest names in experimental theatre. She now lives and works in New York.
Among the works mentioned in this episode:
“Reality” on Max: https://www.hbo.com/movies/reality
“Is This a Room” review: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/theater/is-this-a-room-review.html
The New York magazine article that first got Satter interested in Winner's story: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/12/who-is-reality-winner.html
Satter’s production company, Half Straddle: http://www.halfstraddle.com/
Reality Winner’s interview with Rolling Stone: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/reality-winner-interview-prison-nsa-1261844/
Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Noam Osband and Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair |
| 0:07.2 | podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair, that's patreon.com slash |
| 0:16.9 | LawFair. Also check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair |
| 0:25.6 | no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:35.7 | This is chatter. I'm Shane Harris. This week, film maker Tina Satter on telling the story |
| 0:41.8 | of reality winner. New York Magazine did an article about her and I think the title was |
| 0:50.5 | something like America's biggest terrorist has a Pikachu bed spread. I was like, oh my |
| 0:55.7 | god, this person is super super super interesting. We could make a play with this, I think. |
| 1:04.0 | Something that was like interesting to talk about with the actors in both the play and |
| 1:09.7 | the movie is that all three of those people in real life that day were acting, right? |
| 1:18.4 | The transcript was like a page turner to me. Like, oh my god, when did they get her? |
| 1:23.6 | When did she admit? What is going on here? Why are they talking about cats again? I just |
| 1:28.6 | was totally fell into this document. Tina Satter, welcome to chatter. It's great to have |
| 1:39.5 | you on our show. Hi, I'm really happy to be here. Yeah, I'm too. So our listeners probably |
| 1:46.2 | are familiar with your new movie, Reality, which you wrote and directed. If they haven't seen |
| 1:52.3 | it, as I suspect many have, they almost certainly know the story of reality winner who, of course, |
| 1:59.0 | was the woman who went to prison for divulging classified information to journalists, which is a |
| 2:05.6 | subject that is back in the news and something I've been involved in lately with classified leaks, |
| 2:10.6 | which we can talk about. For people who haven't seen it, highly recommend it. It is a |
| 2:15.7 | truly riveting, fascinating movie. I love the films. I'm really, really happy that you could |
| 2:21.1 | be here to talk to us about it and how you came to that story. What I thought we might start with |
| 2:26.8 | is your background. Before you have spent most of your career in theater, where you've been a |
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